Bloom Post, Dr. Amelia Kelley's shamanic healer, joins the podcast today to talk about the concept of empaths and highly sensitive people, particularly in relation to narcissistic abuse.
Bloom Post, Dr. Amelia Kelley's shamanic healer, joins the podcast today to talk about the concept of empaths and highly sensitive people, particularly in relation to narcissistic abuse.
Key Takeaways
Bloom Post: Website | Instagram: @bloompostlove | Facebook
Dr. Kelley (04:03.028)
So I'm just gonna dive in. You know, some of the listeners have heard me mention before my experience with, I would say, my shaman and the beautiful, I mean, genuinely beautiful experience of the cacao ceremony.
Bloom (04:11.086)
Interesting.
That's funny.
Dr. Kelley (04:31.188)
And so I am so excited to share you with all of our listeners and audience. We have Bloom here today and we were gonna talk everything, empath, highly sensitive and some of the work you do and how that all ties in. So to start, I would love if you could define for our audience how you would explain an empath.
Dr. Jeanne (04:54.395)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (04:55.054)
Yeah, I'd love to. And thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk with you both. And this is one of my most favorite things to talk about because I grew up in empath and being an empath and being highly sensitive and having a lot of trauma in childhood brought me onto this path of healing and ultimately onto a path of shamanism and shamanic healing work. So.
I'm not sure if how I see empath is the same way that you and your listeners will see it, but I'll definitely share how I work with it at this point. So I did some training with a therapist who no longer lives in the US, but she did a lot of work around narcissists as well as empaths and training as to what that looks like, how that works and how they interact with each other, how they interface. And I learned through those trainings that you can be born highly sensitive. However,
you're created as an empath because narcissists create empaths. So generally what happens, and this can look different ways, but generally what happens is when we're an infant, and we're young, we're little, we're a toddler, whatever age we come into contact with that narcissist who tends to be a parent, but doesn't have to be, we come into contact with annihilation energy from that narcissist because narcissists need
Dr. Kelley (05:50.036)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (05:53.563)
Wow.
Dr. Kelley (06:07.092)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (06:16.11)
power source. And so that energy for others feels like annihilation because we need to become part of that narcissist in order to survive. We literally need to give them energy in order to survive and be safe because they need a power source. So we become their power source. Whoever's around them becomes their power source. And as that happens, a highly evolved way to protect ourselves,
Dr. Kelley (06:17.652)
Hmm.
Bloom (06:44.046)
energetically, physically, mentally, emotionally, is to integrate with their energy and become one with their energy so that then we can more easily track them. So when we integrate with their energy and we're better able to track them, we feel safer because at least then we might know when it's coming, whatever it is, whatever that annihilation energy might be, which doesn't necessarily mean a physical thing is happening. Annihilation can be completely energetic.
Dr. Kelley (06:50.58)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (06:54.58)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (07:03.771)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (07:04.628)
Right.
Dr. Kelley (07:09.652)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (07:12.494)
It can be verbal, it can be mental, it can be emotional, it can be physical. So as we do that and we become one with our energy, that empath piece starts to kick in because then we're tracking them and we're hypervigilant, as I'm sure you both know all about hypervigilance and the work that you do with clients, and becoming hypervigilant, tracking them, and then we start tracking everybody.
Dr. Kelley (07:28.5)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (07:29.691)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (07:31.156)
Hehehe.
Dr. Kelley (07:37.844)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (07:38.062)
And then we're adults in the world and I work with so many empaths who say the same thing. I feel everybody else's experience. I feel everybody else's feelings. I'm feeling too much. I'm overwhelmed by everything that I'm feeling. And from my experience and my training, I see that happening because they learned that to protect themselves from the narcissist when they were young. And then they're protecting themselves still, but it's misdirected. It becomes directed at
everybody and everything on the planet. So they walk around almost like an open wound and everything's coming in. It's like a sponge that's completely soaking up all the water and inadvertently that's like a power source. So there's some narcissistic echo there but it doesn't actually give us power. And I would love to say that we could grow up and not be an empath or a narcissist when we have that kind of
Dr. Kelley (08:10.772)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (08:16.724)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (08:25.076)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (08:27.131)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (08:36.622)
adult figure in our life, especially from when we're little, but I haven't seen that. I've only seen people who grow up in narcissistic abuse becoming an empath or becoming a narcissist. And I'm still looking for the programming around how to really clear out that narcissist program. I haven't quite found that yet either. I'm looking at that from a shamanic perspective because narcissism is so widely acceptable, socially acceptable.
Dr. Kelley (08:43.86)
Right.
Dr. Kelley (08:56.244)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (08:57.947)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (09:03.476)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (09:05.198)
People just think that's how we behave now. And unless you really wake up to the behavioral patterns happening there, you just think it's normal and it's really not, and it's not healthy. So as I understand it, you can have highly sensitive people who are not empaths or narcissists, but empaths are always highly sensitive people. And they're, even if they're absolutely unconscious of it, they're tracking, tracking, tracking and feeling all the time. They're not.
Dr. Kelley (09:08.052)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (09:14.644)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (09:22.708)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (09:23.451)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (09:33.716)
Hmm.
Bloom (09:34.062)
consciously tracking, but their energy body is hypervigilant. So they're, they're picking up everybody else's information and then they can't get clear on what they're feeling and who they are authentically, autonomously, and sovereignly. That was a long answer to a short question, but that's how I see the, well, that's how I see like, yeah. And it really, it was such a...
Dr. Jeanne (09:40.443)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (09:46.939)
Ugh.
Dr. Kelley (09:53.78)
No, it was amazing.
Dr. Jeanne (09:55.419)
That's a complicated question.
Bloom (10:01.678)
moment of awareness and insight and awakening for me when I learned that because it wasn't about blaming anybody. You know, I had a narcissistic abusive parent. That is what it is. That was not okay behavior, but it wasn't about blame. It was simply about having an understanding of how I came to be an empath and how better to not walk in that open, just open.
Dr. Kelley (10:06.612)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (10:12.628)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (10:21.62)
Mm.
Dr. Jeanne (10:28.411)
Hmm.
Bloom (10:29.294)
wounded space of taking on everybody's stuff. And it was so nice to see the seeds so that I could better work with the layers of healing. And it was very empowering for me to recognize that and to learn that and to recognize the narcissist piece because a lot of people want to work with me around how to be sensitive, but not overly sensitive.
Dr. Kelley (10:32.724)
Right.
Dr. Kelley (10:55.252)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (10:55.31)
They want to step into their gifts as a sensitive person, but not feel overwhelmed all the time. But we need to do the healing around how we came to be empaths. We need to do that narcissist healing so that then we can really feel safe and strong and autonomous in our own energy body. And so that was a huge piece of the puzzle that was very helpful, not only for me, but for everybody I work with.
Dr. Kelley (11:05.172)
Mmm.
Dr. Jeanne (11:15.227)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (11:22.196)
I love the way that what you just said, and I didn't think it was long -winded. I thought it was incredibly interesting and I have about 15 ,000 directions I want to go right now. I feel like you just described an energetic picture of what the clinical world calls narcissistic supply. So in this like clinician world, if there's someone who is...
Dr. Jeanne (11:28.475)
Yeah.
Bloom (11:30.958)
Ha ha ha.
Dr. Kelley (11:50.804)
with a narcissist in relationship with a narcissist and the narcissist needs their reaction, needs the conflict, needs, needs, needs. We often say you need to cut off the narcissistic supply. They need that supply in order to contain their ego issues. And so the way you just laid that out was so beautiful because I just thought, wow, now I have a picture.
Dr. Jeanne (11:58.875)
Mm. Mm.
Dr. Kelley (12:16.404)
like this visual of what that would look like energetically. So I want to thank you for that. You said something that really stood out to me. You were really leaning into that a narcissist would enhance the likelihood that a highly sensitive person who is more sensitive, more sponge -like to their environment might become an empath. What do you think about people who maybe are encountering
Bloom (12:16.606)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (12:20.279)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (12:45.396)
generational trauma or other types of emotional, I don't want to call them vampires, but people who pull energy but aren't necessarily narcissists.
Bloom (12:57.262)
Yeah. Sorry, I got to call.
Dr. Jeanne (12:57.915)
The takers, the takers in life.
Dr. Kelley (12:58.9)
The takers. Yeah.
Bloom (13:02.734)
You'll need to edit this.
Dr. Kelley (13:04.756)
No, it's actually perfect because you could literally stop with where Dr. Jean says the takers and then we'll cut to when you're ready to respond.
Dr. Jeanne (13:05.019)
No problem.
Bloom (13:10.254)
Yeah, great. I felt it. I was like, don't cough while they're talking. Don't cough while they're talking. Talking to my throat. So let me just make sure I have the question in my head now that I'm coming back into it.
Dr. Jeanne (13:15.131)
actually
Dr. Kelley (13:16.884)
Hahaha!
Dr. Jeanne (13:17.915)
my mom, my mom always.
Dr. Kelley (13:19.54)
Aww.
Bloom (13:27.694)
You were asking about being a power source and you asked about psychic vampires. Will you?
Dr. Kelley (13:35.508)
Yeah, essentially, people who pull from you emotionally, not just narcissists, but the prevalence of generational trauma or, you know, a host of other mental, physical, even substance issues.
Bloom (13:40.238)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Right.
Bloom (13:49.39)
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question because I'm sorry, go ahead.
Dr. Jeanne (13:51.899)
And then I just wanted to tell you, my mom always tells me about the givers and the takers in life. And she always says, my child, you get the givers and the takers in life and the takers will suck you dry. Always. It's like her little slogan.
Dr. Kelley (14:05.204)
Hehehehe.
Bloom (14:07.726)
We can also have, but we can also have people who are inadvertently pulling. It's not, it's not always narcissists or psychic vampires or whatever languaging we want to use for that. Sometimes people are pulling because they don't have healthy boundaries. They can be an empath, they can be a highly sensitive person. And because they don't have healthy boundaries, they end up inadvertently kind of pulling on everybody around them. And, and you can, well, I can feel it.
Dr. Kelley (14:13.748)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (14:33.492)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (14:37.358)
Sometimes I can even smell it. It's like their essence stays behind because they're not energetically contained. And so we can have people who are not, are nurturers, caregivers, caretakers, empaths, highly sensitive, and still they can be inadvertently pulling, which will feel like taking to someone else, right?
Dr. Kelley (14:42.932)
Hmm. Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (14:43.003)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (15:03.924)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (15:04.238)
So it's not always a conscious behavior. I would venture to guess 100 % of the things we're talking about are not conscious behaviors. A narcissist is not conscious of what they're doing. That's part of the problem. But a highly sensitive person doesn't always, or an empath, and again, you can be an empath and a highly sensitive person and have good boundaries, but generally you have to learn it. You have to learn that because, yeah, especially as an empath because,
Dr. Kelley (15:12.98)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (15:28.66)
Mm -hmm. And practice all the time.
Bloom (15:34.286)
As an empath we're taught you don't get to have autonomy, you don't get to have sovereignty, you're my power source and so you don't get to have boundaries. You learn absolutely no boundaries when you grow up as an empath, when you're created as an empath. So there can be that narcissistic echo that comes through but there can also simply be a lack of boundaries where someone is so sensitive that they're constantly trying to fix or save.
Dr. Kelley (15:44.5)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (15:53.844)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (16:01.684)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (16:01.934)
You know, that energy, that vibration can lead into the martyrdom energy and the victimhood energy. And then it creates a situation where if I'm trying to fix or save you, I'm energetically pulling from you because that's not what you need. You don't need somebody to jump out of the boat with you in the water. And then you're both drowning. You need somebody who can stay in their body, in their energetic body, stay in the boat with, with a, you know, a, what do you call it?
Dr. Jeanne (16:03.287)
you
Dr. Kelley (16:13.78)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (16:17.211)
you
Dr. Kelley (16:22.132)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (16:31.83)
of life jacket with their life jacket at, you know, be an example of healthy. I know, but be an example of how to have healthy boundaries and stay autonomous and sovereign and then empower that other person. So I really feel that the best way to deal with people around you.
Dr. Kelley (16:33.044)
Life jacket? We're playing charades right there.
Dr. Jeanne (16:35.739)
Hehehe
Thank you.
Bloom (16:55.95)
that might feel like takers or might feel like they're pulling from you is to start tracking yourself. Start working with your own energy, your own energy body. As you were saying, it's a daily practice and there's tools that you can work with. But as you get more sovereign and autonomous and really energetically clear, then the other people around can't hook in. And there's layers to that because as you mentioned, the lineage energies and working with family and things like that,
Dr. Kelley (17:03.188)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (17:19.028)
Mmm.
Bloom (17:26.222)
we need to clean up the energy with lineage as well as with current family. And the way I like to do that is not just in this lifetime, but throughout lifetimes, timelines, dimensions, and realms. Because from a shamanic perspective, this is not the first time we have spent time together as a family or as a community or as partners or as friends. So when we clean that up through every possible lifetime, timeline, dimension, realm, then...
Dr. Jeanne (17:29.467)
you
Dr. Kelley (17:41.588)
Mm.
Bloom (17:55.118)
The intention is to really get the lessons we came here to get so that we can move forward in a good way. The way I was trained is that you cut, you cut those chords, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. And I did that for a little while and I kept noticing that people would have shifts, but it would never fully resolve because anything we're in resistance to persists. So.
Dr. Kelley (17:59.924)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (18:06.932)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (18:17.012)
Hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (18:20.923)
Hmm.
Bloom (18:21.39)
My guides taught me to shift that, so instead of trying to cut away something, we cannot cut ourselves away from the energy of everybody else on the planet. We're all connected. We're all one. However, we can clean it up. We can transmute it and transform it so that we clear out those unhealthy connections and we empower, or unhealthy attachments rather, and we empower the healthy connections. So then...
Dr. Kelley (18:31.892)
Right.
Dr. Kelley (18:39.7)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (18:45.94)
Hmm.
Bloom (18:46.99)
You don't have to cut people out of your world. You can simply clean up the energy and the people who don't vibrate where you vibrate won't come into your space anymore. So you can do this. I call it cord clearing and forgiveness. And it's a practice that I do with clients regularly and probably the most popular practice that people always ask for and want to do because it empowers people in relationships that you want to keep, but it also empowers and cleans up energy and relationships that.
Dr. Jeanne (18:57.5)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (19:06.932)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (19:13.204)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (19:16.91)
might be long finished or that you can see need to come to a close. But when we do our work first, then those attachments and those psychic vampires and those narcissists are much less likely to even be in our field, much less hook in. I feel like that's where the depth of the healing really takes place. When we stop looking outside of ourselves, and I'm not saying they're not out there, I live in the world. I live in the world. I see them. I feel them. I experience them.
Dr. Kelley (19:22.42)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (19:41.972)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (19:44.603)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (19:47.214)
And I have moments, even after 25 years of doing shamanic healing work, I was in a class with these young people and there was a, and I mean young people, like young enough to be my children, young people. And there was a student in there that I just had a weird feeling about, but didn't know him. I'd never really interacted with him. And over the semester I started recognizing, he's a narcissist. He's just so young. I've never seen a narcissist that young.
Dr. Kelley (19:58.932)
haha
Dr. Kelley (20:13.172)
Bloom (20:17.518)
And I went, that's what that feeling in my gut is. I just didn't recognize it because he's not fully grown into an adult man, which is where I'm used to seeing it. And it was just, and I'm talking like a 19 or 20 year old person. And so I just witnessed it, but it was interesting. It doesn't mean they don't come into your field or that you don't see them, but I was able to steer clear of the energetics.
Dr. Kelley (20:25.844)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (20:26.139)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (20:29.908)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (20:45.902)
I watched the energetics play out with the young empaths in the room. And there wasn't a whole lot I could do there because that's not a conversation they're ready to have. But I was able to bring energetic compassion and kindness and love to the space and hold space for some students who did get upset at his behavior and needed a mama to talk about it. And I was the only adult in the classroom other than the professor who they're not going to talk to.
Dr. Kelley (20:50.356)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (20:55.636)
It's hard.
Dr. Jeanne (21:09.083)
Mm.
Bloom (21:14.286)
But my point being that you run into these people everywhere and they're doing the best they can do. They're wounded and we have our wounds to work with. So I do feel like narcissism is a different kind of wounding that's incredibly toxic. And it is important if you can to walk away. I sit with so many people and this is something we talked about in the trainings too that narcissists are so good at reflecting what you want.
Dr. Jeanne (21:18.075)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (21:20.756)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (21:28.788)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (21:29.755)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (21:33.748)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (21:34.171)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (21:43.726)
and reflecting what you want to see and telling you what you need to hear until you get off their back so that they can go back into those behaviors. And I see a lot of people get pulled back in and then the same behaviors begin and then they create an ultimatum and then the narcissist pulls them back in. And so for me, with the narcissist in my personal life, I definitely had to simply walk away. And that's not easy.
Dr. Kelley (21:43.955)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (21:51.22)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (21:59.878)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (22:11.412)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (22:12.667)
I was going to ask you that actually, because I was going to ask you, so if I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm understanding it correctly about the energy and you can, you can't, you don't necessarily have to cut the cord, but you can clear the energy. What happens if, if there's just so much in there and you've done all of this and you've gone through so many sessions of clearing the energy and forgiveness and working on yourself and.
Bloom (22:17.166)
Okay.
Dr. Jeanne (22:37.979)
and all of that, and you get stuck in that situation that you just said, where they keep on coming back and they keep on entering your space. It's almost as if they are then more interested in you as you're changing and growing, because it's like they see maybe this light or this energy or something, and it feels like, I don't know, maybe good to be around that or something, I don't know. And then what do you do, you know, and...
It's good to know that then perhaps you can try to just walk away.
Bloom (23:13.102)
Well, and that's a great question too, because sometimes I'm working with clients who are trying to clear energy with people they live with, people they're married to. And I'm not telling someone to get divorced or break up. I support whatever their decision is. I support them being the most healthy, vibrant human they can and living their mission and living their, just thriving, living their joy, living their most expansive life. But my experience is as I work with people doing this core clearing and forgiveness and...
Dr. Kelley (23:20.564)
and
Dr. Jeanne (23:20.923)
Mm.
Bloom (23:42.638)
soul retrieval and lineage, karma clearing and all of these different practices, as someone becomes more sovereign and autonomous and clean energetically within themselves, it's easier to walk away if you need to. And yes, the narcissist will always pop back because they don't want to lose that power source. But as soon as they realize they're losing a power source, they will find another one very quickly.
Dr. Jeanne (23:58.235)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (23:58.772)
Definitely.
Dr. Kelley (24:02.644)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (24:11.124)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (24:12.302)
And I don't necessarily mean they're looking for a partner. You know, parents can use their children as power sources. Friends can use friends as power sources. It's just the way narcissism works. They'll find a power source. It's almost, to me, I know this is gonna sound kind of wacky to some people, but honestly, it's almost like they're zombies. Narcissistic personality disorder, true narcissistic personality disorder to me, the energetics when I track it feels like that person is no longer.
Dr. Jeanne (24:21.211)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (24:33.108)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (24:33.787)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (24:42.734)
Like their soul is no longer intact. It's like they're not, they're no longer fully present in their body. It's almost like they've been taken over by something like a zombie and they need to feed energetically. They need to feed and they'll seem like totally normal. Sometimes they're leaders. Often they're leaders in the community and or they're politicians in the world or they're spiritual, spiritual leaders in their community. It doesn't mean they can't be incredibly charismatic and
Dr. Kelley (24:45.268)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (24:45.787)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (24:52.884)
Mm -hmm.
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (25:01.62)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (25:06.363)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (25:12.782)
handsome or beautiful or interesting or intelligent or
Dr. Kelley (25:15.956)
and they often are because they care a lot about that.
Bloom (25:18.958)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. But yeah, the more we get clean and clear in our energy, the easier it is to recognize how to deal with the narcissist in our world, which may or may not mean getting divorced. That's for everybody to decide. But for me, as far as a narcissistic parent, I had a conversation, attempted a conversation with that parent. That parent refused to take any responsibility and
Dr. Jeanne (25:19.195)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (25:25.332)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (25:31.867)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (25:38.996)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (25:45.179)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (25:46.324)
Hmm.
Bloom (25:47.662)
and threw everything back on me, even from when I was like three years old, five years old, seven years old. And I was like, wow, wow, okay. I was at fault when I was five years old. Got it, this is a mental health disorder, right? But I felt so clear in that moment and I realized this person is incapable of change. Now there's...
Dr. Kelley (25:55.956)
Hmm. Consistent.
Dr. Jeanne (25:56.603)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (26:02.548)
Mm hmm.
Dr. Kelley (26:12.692)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (26:12.859)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (26:13.87)
people in my life who are still connected with that person and they choose to navigate the manipulation and the behaviors, but that's just not something I choose to navigate anymore and I feel so much better not having to navigate that.
Dr. Kelley (26:24.98)
Right.
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (26:28.091)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (26:30.196)
You mentioned something earlier that sometimes you can feel in your body when you're encountering and because you are an empath and highly sensitive person, you can feel that energy. What do you think for those listeners who maybe have had to be in the survival mode with these emotional takers for so long that maybe they're a little out of touch with their body?
and their energy because that can be common with trauma, interpersonal trauma especially. What would you say are some of the common signs that maybe your energy, your safety, your boundaries are being crossed that you think people should be aware of and what does that sometimes feel like? And this is all your opinion, of course.
Bloom (27:19.502)
Yeah, and it's going to be different for everybody. People have different levels of what they're willing to navigate and different levels of what bothers them. For me, if I can shift the question a little bit, I think they'll have a better idea of the unhealthy boundaries once they're more in touch with how they actually feel. So answering your question, yeah, by saying often it's hard to tell what those signs are.
Dr. Kelley (27:22.74)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (27:27.956)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (27:32.148)
Please.
Dr. Kelley (27:36.052)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (27:41.524)
make sense.
Dr. Jeanne (27:42.043)
Mm.
Bloom (27:48.142)
when you can't feel your own experience because you're overwhelmed by feeling everybody else's because you're an empath.
Dr. Kelley (27:52.948)
I just got goosebumps. That was such a good spin on the question. I love that.
Dr. Jeanne (27:54.747)
Hmm.
Bloom (27:57.326)
Yeah. Well, and that's why when I talk about tracking our own energy, which is something I do with clients and I do with students, I work with them to teach them how to do this. Part of it is that we need to bring some healing and clean up those attachments so that we can feel what we're actually feeling physically, emotionally, and otherwise. But then there's also the aspect of learning to read the signs that your body gives you. So for me, I get a feeling in my gut.
Dr. Jeanne (27:58.171)
Wow.
Dr. Kelley (28:17.588)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (28:26.414)
when I'm interacting with a narcissist. It does not matter how nice they are. It doesn't matter how nice the interaction might be. I get a feeling in my gut and my body says, you need to pay attention. There might be something happening here. Now I can also get a feeling in my gut when there's not a narcissist around, but there's some energy that doesn't necessarily, I don't know what it is and I want to find out what it is to make sure I feel okay. I have a big, our gut is really another brain.
Dr. Kelley (28:26.452)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (28:40.244)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (28:55.886)
totally another brain giving us information and it's where all of our intuitive information begins. It begins in the body, totally begins in the body. So they call it women's intuition but really everybody has it and when you get that feeling when we talk about that feeling or or you think about a friend and then they call you or text you or any there's all sorts of ways it can happen but we we learn to override those intuitive nudges.
Dr. Jeanne (28:56.667)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (28:57.588)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (29:04.084)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (29:09.908)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (29:14.171)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (29:20.852)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (29:25.006)
And that information that's telling us this is a boundary or there's an energy in the room that doesn't feel good to you. You might want to check out what it is that that sixth sense as it were. We learned to override that when we're little for lots of reasons, especially if we grew up as an empath. We have to override what we're feeling to just focus on the inherent danger of being annihilated by an empath. And I use that term very intentionally because it feels like we'll be annihilated.
Dr. Kelley (29:32.724)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (29:36.788)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (29:48.212)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (29:54.702)
which is why we go to such extremes to protect and start taking on everybody's energy. But as you get more autonomous and sovereign and clean and clear in your own energy, then you start getting those nudges that tell you this boundary has been crossed or I remember this was long before I was even doing this work. I was probably 18, 19 years old. I was living in New York City. I had just moved there from North Carolina. So I was like a little bumpkin in the city. And
Dr. Kelley (29:54.708)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (29:57.019)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (30:00.884)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (30:23.348)
Hehehe
Bloom (30:24.558)
was not, I was very naive, let's put it that way. And so I was getting ready to walk down, yeah, I was getting ready to walk down something like that, walk down this neighborhood and something in me said, don't go that way. And I'm 19 or something, I didn't, I just thought, okay. And I just listened, even though I didn't know why, because I wasn't aware back then, I wasn't working with the shaman yet, I wasn't paying attention.
Dr. Jeanne (30:24.763)
Ha ha ha ha
Dr. Kelley (30:26.804)
Hehehe
Bloom takes on New York.
Bloom (30:53.006)
and something told me not to go that way. And I found out the next day that something happened on that street. And so, and again, 19 years old, I just went, wow, that's cool that, you know, I got protected and then immediately forgot about it, of course, because I wasn't paying attention to the signs. But it doesn't always have to be something negative either. It could simply be.
Dr. Kelley (30:59.476)
Wow.
Dr. Jeanne (31:06.811)
Yeah.
Bloom (31:17.07)
go to this store at this time and you go to that store and you don't even know why but you end up meeting somebody that becomes an incredibly important person for you or or go speak to that woman over there who's sitting by herself and just say hi and you do and it turns out you have friends in common there can be all sorts of different you know you don't necessarily have to use it as psychic abilities and become a tarot reader or anything like that but you have more access to your gifts and your abilities.
Dr. Kelley (31:25.236)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (31:25.915)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (31:41.972)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (31:46.196)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (31:46.286)
And we all have intuitive gifts. We all have the ability to receive messages from whatever you consider source, spirit, God, love, divinity, your guides, whoever you're connecting with. And for me personally, that's been such a beautiful support on my journey because most of our journey, we may only see two or three feet in front of us, even though we make plans like we can see for years, but we really can't.
Dr. Jeanne (32:12.347)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (32:12.808)
You're calling G now.
Bloom (32:14.574)
And so to have these guides that let me know, you know, to have this, okay, okay. No, I wasn't talking to anybody individually, but, but Jean, no, I'm kidding. but no, to have, to have guides that I can check in with and get that intuitive information. And. You know, even it's something as simple as, just this just happened last week. I might've even been earlier this week, four or five days ago.
Dr. Jeanne (32:16.603)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (32:24.212)
Hahaha!
Hehehehe
Bloom (32:44.11)
I got this intuitive hit to schedule a particular ceremony and invite this particular group that I'd been on retreat with. And I had none of that planned out. None of that was in my calendar. I was shifting another ceremony to do it, but just my guys just said, just put it out there. And it was full within 24 hours. I went, okay, this group really wanted to come together and do this ceremony. And that was not even on my radar until my guides said,
hey, do this, and I got that message and I did it, and now in August we'll do this great retreat together. And so it's not always about being able to track and protect yourself. Once you really are able to step into your sovereignty and track yourself and recognize what you're feeling and what those messages are intuitively, then you can eat better because your body will tell you very clearly.
Dr. Jeanne (33:36.859)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (33:37.39)
I'm not having that right now. My body started doing that to me. I remember when that started happening and I was so upset because there were certain things I really liked to eat my body went no No, and I would start to feel sick, but my body was right. It was not stuff I needed to be eating And just my whole world shifted when I eat what I drink when I bring into my system whether it's nourishment from food nourishment from people nourishment from work just
Dr. Kelley (33:37.46)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (33:43.764)
if
Dr. Jeanne (33:44.763)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (33:53.428)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (33:54.235)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (34:05.262)
And it's so much easier for me to not only walk away from situations that feel toxic or maybe aren't toxic, they just don't feel supportive to me personally. And there's no harm, no foul. It's just not my people, not my place, not my situation. But it's also easier to find people, places and situations that are my space, that I can really empower them and they feel loving and supportive for me. And there's that beautiful sacred reciprocity and...
Dr. Kelley (34:15.124)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (34:20.827)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (34:26.011)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (34:33.23)
So it goes both ways, not just protection, but also bringing in that chosen family or the energies that you really want to experience so you can truly thrive.
Dr. Kelley (34:44.948)
I love that you're bringing that up because literally I feel like you were in my last therapy session I just had. I was working with someone who has been struggling a lot with their friendships and she's really nervous about setting a specific boundary and kept saying, well, what if I bring this up and my roommate gets really upset? And I said, well, then you have information. I mean, then you have information about the relationship. You have information about whether or not.
this person is your person or is safe for you. And I'm thinking about the way that you were explaining finding things through going in first and then connecting with your intuition. It does take a little bit of purposeful exploration or, you know, willingness to try things and set the boundaries. And I don't know, it just, I feel like you just.
Dr. Jeanne (35:16.283)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (35:38.523)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (35:41.012)
kind of painted why that was such an important thing for her to say the thing that is going to be uncomfortable.
Bloom (35:48.718)
yeah, for sure. And if I, if I was working with someone like that who said, I need to have this uncomfortable conversation, I would do a cord clearing and forgiveness first to clean up that energy so that then when you go talk to them, even if they don't respond favorably, that person who's telling them isn't triggered by it, doesn't need to be activated. It's not a personal attack. And that's something that empaths deal with a lot. Everything feels like a personal attack.
Dr. Kelley (35:54.676)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (35:59.508)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (36:02.331)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (36:06.292)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (36:13.716)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (36:18.798)
because they grew up with their lack of sovereignty. So they were always kind of energetically attacked, whether that was physically happening or not. And so that's something that I'm sure you know we do when we don't feel safe, even if the person says, no, I don't like that, it can become a personal attack. And so.
Dr. Kelley (36:18.9)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (36:18.939)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (36:25.812)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (36:37.204)
That makes a lot of sense. I once was given a very funny compliment about how I can say things to people that they don't want to hear, but they'll still leave smiling. And I said, I think it's because I pay a lot of attention to what my body is feeling when I'm talking to someone. And if I feel tense or angry or upset, that is going to...
Dr. Jeanne (36:50.683)
Ha!
Dr. Jeanne (36:57.371)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (37:05.172)
seep out into the other person. So if I can stay level, I don't do this all the time. I'm saying when I'm on point, that it makes a difference. But that brings up a question I have then. If you are an empath and you try to clear your energy, work on forgiveness, attend to your body, you talk to the person and they still come back at you with attack, is there a way to...
I don't know, help the self with clearing that out.
Dr. Jeanne (37:38.587)
Yeah.
Bloom (37:39.502)
Mm hmm. Yeah, that's a great question because even even if you clear, like I said, even if you clear all the empaths out of your world, you'll still run into them. I ran into an empath that the supermarket and not an empath, a narcissist from my community. And no, no, no, no, no, no, no
Dr. Kelley (37:40.628)
Protect the self. Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (37:48.628)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (37:54.068)
Okay, thank you. I was like, wait, do we want to clear empaths now?
Dr. Jeanne (37:56.059)
Ha ha!
Bloom (38:08.494)
this person did that thing that they do where they just fall into your eyes and start, hey, dude. And it felt very slimy and kind of tentacly. And I just said, hello. And I just kept walking. But then when I turned the corner, I had a moment of, okay, am I regulated? Because when we get around narcissists, we become dysregulated.
Dr. Kelley (38:16.244)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (38:16.411)
Ehh!
Dr. Kelley (38:25.108)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (38:36.532)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (38:36.795)
Mm.
Bloom (38:36.878)
So I just said hello politely and just kept walking, which I'm sure they thought was very odd and rude, but I wasn't being rude. I was just being clear. And I walked around, you know, kept walking. And once I got around the corner of that particular aisle, I just kind of stopped and checked in. And this is a little different for me because I've been doing it for a while. For people who are learning how to do it or have never done it.
Dr. Kelley (38:47.252)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (38:47.835)
Mm.
Bloom (39:02.894)
You will feel dysregulated when you come upon a narcissist, even if you just run into them at the grocery store. You will feel dysregulated. And so what you need to do is then work with tools to regulate yourself. But I came around the corner and just stopped and said, I'm safe. I'm safe. And I'm talking to all my little girl selves that I did soul retrieval around over the last 25 years. I'm safe. I'm good. And I breathed into my belly. I grounded into mama Gaia. I use my tools.
Dr. Kelley (39:08.116)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (39:08.699)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (39:14.42)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (39:31.31)
I was like, yeah, I am safe, I'm good. I don't need to be dysregulated. But that wasn't always the case. If I ran into a narcissist or they came around, I would feel dysregulated. And part of being dysregulated and the reason it's so easy for empaths to become dysregulated is because when they're tracking, when they're becoming the energy of the person around them, then a narcissist comes along, it's very easy to manipulate the empath's energy. So an empath will just kind of go along to get along.
Dr. Kelley (39:34.1)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (39:56.82)
Hmm.
Bloom (39:59.982)
and then they get away from them and they go, I feel so exhausted or I feel so confused or whatever. And ultimately they're dysregulated. So I feel like there are tools that you can work with, but there's also practice, the shamanic healing work that needs to happen in between the times that you become dysregulated so that you're more prepared when it happens, so that you remember to fall back on your tools and not fall back on old habits.
Dr. Kelley (40:09.588)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (40:09.755)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (40:17.972)
Mm -hmm. Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (40:29.14)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (40:29.166)
If you're living with someone that's a narcissist, who's truly a narcissist, then you will probably be consistently dysregulated. And that's a much bigger practice. I call that trying to heal inside the beehive. You know, like if you're in the beehive, it's hard to not get stung. So, you know, I think that's where working with a therapist and making sure like doing relational counseling.
Dr. Kelley (40:37.684)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (40:38.683)
Mm.
Dr. Jeanne (40:43.675)
But also,
Bloom (40:54.894)
There needs to be more than the empath doing the work. If you're in partnership with a narcissist, if that narcissist is not willing to truly do the work, then I would have some real serious conversations with yourself around the health of that relationship. Gene, I know you want to say something.
Dr. Jeanne (41:12.091)
No, no, I'm just also relating to what you're explaining and what Amelia asked. I think a lot of that comes down to the fear response, right? That's how it is for me. That's what triggers me is that fear, the fear of what's going to happen if that person lashes back, if I stand up for myself, if I go into that difficult situation, it's like that fear of fear itself.
Dr. Kelley (41:40.564)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (41:41.499)
is what kind of dysregulates me because getting out of that fear response is so difficult. If, if you're so, if it's been so trained into you and so imprinted into you that, because you're coming from a perspective where fear was almost good because that's sent your alarm bells off. And that's what told you, okay, run. So you can be safe or act. So you can be safe.
And now you're trying to shift your focus to say, okay, well, fear is not necessarily a good thing. I need to understand how to read the signals and stand up for myself against this person in a way that is not coming from that kind of place that's rooted in fear. I don't know if I'm making any sense. I feel like I'm not making sense.
Bloom (42:30.19)
That totally makes sense. It totally makes sense. What I would offer up is that as we heal and we recognize that we run into a narcissist or somehow we're around a narcissist, need to interact with them, we can feel that we're dysregulated. What I would offer up is we want to respond instead of react. So that fear place puts us in a place of reaction, which means we react out.
Dr. Kelley (42:50.292)
Mmm.
Bloom (42:54.382)
we're totally reacting with what's coming at us. They're being manipulative and then we start manipulating our own energy and trying to navigate and kind of squirm into fitting into whatever energy they're bringing. But if we're in responsibility, that's our ability to respond. And that's where for me, the shamanic path with this work, it's so important to take personal responsibility as I do my work, then that fear response from being hypervigilant,
Dr. Jeanne (42:54.811)
Mmm.
Bloom (43:22.606)
constantly having to track to, you know, the fear of the fear. Is this narcissist what's going to happen today? Because they can be very unpredictable. But when we're in a place that we've done our inner work, then we can respond. So when that narcissist walked up and I felt all that tentacle energy and he was his slimy little lack of boundaries and flirtatiousness and well, hey, and I just went.
Dr. Jeanne (43:26.043)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (43:26.388)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (43:32.34)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (43:52.11)
Hello, and I kept walking. That was a response. That was not reactive. I was not triggered. I was not activated. I was not afraid. I was staying in my body, staying grounded. And because I'm Southern, I still said, hello. I was polite in case that's necessary. I was polite. And then I just gently, you know, kept walking. And then I stopped and checked in and let myself know I don't need to be in fear.
Dr. Jeanne (43:54.587)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (43:55.604)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (44:07.188)
Hehehehe
Dr. Jeanne (44:08.027)
Hahaha.
Bloom (44:18.542)
Exactly what you're talking about, Jean. I don't need to be in fear. I'm safe. I'm safe. I'm grounded. I'm in my body. Okay, but I wanted to take that moment to regulate and make sure that all of my aspects, every aspect of me, my body, my soul pieces that I've retrieved, my little girl selves, like my mind, my heart, all of it, it's like, we're actually good.
Dr. Kelley (44:18.58)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (44:22.804)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (44:44.11)
Okay, and then, but it wasn't always like that. That was something I had to learn and something I had to continue to heal to the place where it wouldn't activate me but like that. But I think you're totally right. We were being reactive, not out of nowhere. We've learned it. It's a learned response and it's learned because we had to be. We had to be. If you grew up with a narcissist parent, you may not recognize it as fear, but you had to constantly be prepared.
Dr. Kelley (44:46.644)
Yeah, right.
Dr. Kelley (45:06.708)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (45:13.422)
for whatever is coming. And so that lack of true safety does create a sense of fear. But sometimes when we're older, I'll work with clients to say, well, they never beat me or anything. But then they'll start saying, well, I never got to be a kid. I had to tiptoe around. I had to make sure mom was OK, or I had to take care of dad who was always drunk, or whatever the situation was, even if they weren't.
Dr. Jeanne (45:13.563)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (45:25.492)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (45:37.435)
Hmm.
Bloom (45:39.566)
Sometimes we equate the harm only with physical abuse and that's not always how it looks. So we learn to be in that fear place because we don't really feel safe and taken care of and often empaths are taking care of everybody else around them.
Dr. Jeanne (45:46.427)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (45:51.572)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (45:55.54)
And something that I heard you say, if we could kind of break it down for our highly sensitives and empaths who are listening and they want to know, how do I do this beautiful thing you did in the grocery store? And tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm hearing stop, recognize, space, sometimes physical space, sometimes if you're even in the same room.
Dr. Jeanne (46:15.195)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (46:19.86)
I've talked with people about, you know, finding grounding objects in the room or reading words backward on whatever you can do to disengage. And then that sometimes offers just enough room to do all the beautiful stuff you're encouraging all of the people you help to do, which is the checking in and then being able to say, am I reacting or am I responding? You are.
Dr. Jeanne (46:46.299)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (46:48.628)
like for me have been such a grounding source of energy as a highly sensitive empath who comes from generational trauma, who's working with people as a therapist all the time. I am ripe with opportunities for empathy overload and I am so grateful for the continued teaching that you offer and I've been able to be part of that.
And I was curious if you could share what you have to offer the listeners, what they might be able to participate in, because honestly, I could talk to you for a whole nother hour, but we unfortunately can't. So where can people find you and gain some more of the support after this episode?
Dr. Jeanne (47:25.851)
Hahaha!
Bloom (47:35.694)
Yeah, I'd love to share that. I want to share one brief thing though, based on what you just talked about with the tools. If you're not yet at the point where you're able to really navigate that as gracefully, if you're still feeling really triggered or activated and you run into a narcissist and get completely dysregulated, that's okay. What I would encourage empaths and highly sensitive people, but especially empaths to do throughout your day, when you're having some sort of emotional experience, stop.
Dr. Kelley (47:39.092)
Yeah, sure.
Bloom (48:04.686)
and ask yourself, is this mine? Is this mine? There's been days that I have in the past where I've woken up and I just woke up in a mood. I woke up in some kind of mood and I literally just woke up. What could I possibly be feeling already? And so I'll just stop and I would say, is this mine? And I would check in and go, no, something's happening in the world.
Dr. Kelley (48:07.38)
Mmm.
Dr. Jeanne (48:08.603)
Hmm.
Bloom (48:29.102)
and I'm picking up on it, so I woke up in this mood, but this isn't actually mine, I don't need to carry this, right? So I feel like that's a great place to start tracking your own energy, is this mine? Because that's such a fundamental place to start. And then everything I mentioned, the clearing and the lineage work and everything that I do with people will support the healing so that you can then do all the things you just listed of really checking in, even if you're in the room, I love the idea of...
Dr. Kelley (48:29.172)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (48:35.764)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (48:36.059)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (48:41.396)
Love that.
Bloom (48:58.03)
finding a way to ground even while you might be around the narcissist. I think that's a beautiful practice because you can't always just walk away. But, you know, I don't know if it's because I'm a Pisces, but sometimes it helps me to physically get away from everybody else's energy and then go, here I am. That was really helpful for me when I was younger. But yeah, just asking yourself, is this mine? Because when we really start to feel into it, a lot of times we're having an emotional experience that's not ours.
Dr. Jeanne (49:03.131)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (49:04.18)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Dr. Jeanne (49:06.107)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (49:13.236)
mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (49:15.483)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (49:19.316)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (49:27.854)
You can go to the grocery store. I keep talking about the grocery store, but that's where you run into so many people, right? Yeah, but but there were so many times I would go to the grocery store and be in a perfectly good mood and then somebody would be crying and I would feel all that energy. You know, I'm like in my 20s. I was just like, why do I suddenly want to cry now? And I was picking up everything and even people who weren't crying, I was picking up on their energy. And so I would leave the store feeling.
Dr. Kelley (49:28.148)
Right.
Dr. Jeanne (49:28.763)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (49:30.516)
That's all you're just doing shamanic healings and grocery shopping. That's it.
Dr. Jeanne (49:33.403)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (49:43.124)
Mm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (49:44.187)
Hmm.
Bloom (49:55.086)
exhausted because there's so many people there and so much energy to pick up on. But yeah, that's something that my first teacher, Shaman John, told me to do. He said, you need to stop and ask, is this mine? Because you're carrying things that are not yours. So that's what something I want to offer that everybody can do all the time throughout the day and practice when you're not in a triggering situation so that when you get there, you're more prepared for it. So I just wanted to just give that one little piece.
Dr. Kelley (50:05.268)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (50:08.283)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (50:11.412)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (50:16.564)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (50:21.998)
As far as finding me and working with me, you can find me at my website, bloompost .com. I do have a monthly mentorship that meets the first Tuesday of every month. And I love that you're there. We have people from all over the world and it's really wonderful. There's always a recording that goes out if you can't be there live for some reason. We have people in Europe who can never be there live because it's in the middle of the night. So they only do the recordings. And I just love how.
Dr. Kelley (50:22.196)
Love that.
Dr. Kelley (50:34.036)
I love.
Dr. Jeanne (50:35.675)
Ha ha ha ha.
Dr. Kelley (50:38.548)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (50:51.15)
As weird as it was for me, because like I said, I've been doing this 25 years. It was a little weird to go online back in the day and start doing that even before the pandemic. It was weird for me, but it's been such a tool to connect with people from all over the world and to recognize what a big community we really do have of people who are seeking and people who want to heal and people who want to share and grow and learn together. And I do offer private shamanic healing sessions, individual sessions.
Dr. Kelley (50:56.788)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (51:15.611)
Hmm.
Bloom (51:20.302)
I offered ceremonies, which you can find on my website as well. I'm doing some more traveling, so I'll be offering ceremonies, hopefully around the United States. Yeah, I hope to definitely in 2025 be offering more. I'll be on the road a lot more than I've been able to the last three or four years. I have books for sale. I have all sorts of goodies. I do all sorts of things. So yeah, if you check out my website, all the information is there and you can just shoot me an email and we can figure out what's most supportive for each person.
Dr. Kelley (51:27.028)
Come back to Raleigh.
Dr. Jeanne (51:29.371)
Hahaha.
Dr. Kelley (51:34.772)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (51:50.132)
Awesome.
Dr. Jeanne (51:50.875)
That's wonderful. Thank you so much for your time. This was such an informative session. Thank you so much.
Bloom (51:57.198)
Thank you. It was really fun to be here. I really do love talking about this because there's so many people who need to have this conversation. And I love that you two are bringing this conversation to the forefront without shame, without blame, just having a really open, beautiful, healing conversation around it. Because I think the biggest piece I want people to really get is you're not alone. You are not the only person experiencing this and we can support and empower each other. And those who've walked through it,
Dr. Kelley (51:58.26)
Hehehe.
Dr. Kelley (52:05.748)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (52:11.188)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelley (52:19.572)
Mm -hmm.
Bloom (52:26.318)
can hold a light for those who are starting or in the middle of their journey or we're all in the middle of our journey ultimately. But those of us who have some more tools in our toolkit can share those with others. And I just love that.
Dr. Kelley (52:40.02)
All right. Well, thank you so much, Bloom. Okay. Bye everyone. And then I have to tell you guys something really funny and then we have to jump off and do another.
Bloom (52:42.67)
Thank you. Thank you.
Dr. Jeanne (52:42.875)
Thank you. Bye.