In this heartfelt and inspiring conversation, Dr. Amelia Kelley speaks with Tom Dutta, host of The Quiet Warrior Podcast, about his journey from masking his sensitivity to embracing it as a powerful leadership quality. Tom shares his personal story, from a challenging childhood shaped by strict parenting and generational trauma to his transformation through forgiveness, self-awareness, and resilience. The discussion highlights the challenges men face in navigating sensitivity and societal expectations, offering valuable insights on breaking free from harmful stereotypes and creating authentic connections. Tom also reflects on the importance of mental health, the life-changing impact of therapy, and practical tools like cognitive behavioral therapy for personal growth. This episode is a compelling exploration of vulnerability, healing, and the profound strength found in embracing one’s true self.
Follow Tom Dutta
Instagram
Youtube
Listen to his podcast "The Quiet Warrior Show"
[00:00:00]
[00:00:00] Amelia: Hey everyone, welcome back to the sensitivity doctor, where this highly sensitive doctor asks all the questions you've all been wondering about today. I get to talk to Tom Duda. He is the host of the quiet warrior podcast of which I was lucky enough to be on to talk about one of my books. He is vulnerable, open, and quite the storyteller and really lays out what it's like to grow up as a highly sensitive boy who turns into a not so sensitive man who doesn't know about his HSP traits and how he has found healing through forgiveness and resilience.
[00:00:46] So I hope you enjoy the episode. Yeah. So Tom, I'm super excited to have you here today. Uh, I had the pleasure of being on your podcast, which was one of the most dynamic ones I've ever been on. [00:01:00] Um, talk about my book, surviving suicidal ideations. So I was thrilled when you said you would come chat with me on the sensitivity doctor.
[00:01:09] And I would love for our audience to just learn a little bit about who you are before we dive into our topic today.
[00:01:16] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Oh, absolutely. And, uh, yeah, I'm going to brag because this is the book actually you just mentioned.
[00:01:20] Amelia: Ah, yes.
[00:01:22] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: So, I did read it and it's interesting because in there, Surviving Suicidal Ideation, I have a connection to that with my story.
[00:01:29] A little bit about me, Tom Dutta like butter. Butter is an important word around here because we just came out of Canadian Thanksgiving.
[00:01:36] Amelia: Oh, happy Thanksgiving. So,
[00:01:38] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Dr. Amelia, I'm on the west coast of Canada, Vancouver. Vancouver. Vancouver.
[00:01:42] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): And
[00:01:43] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: so I basically I was born in the United Kingdom and immigrated to Canada when I was five.
[00:01:49] I'm a son of Fijian parents and I have Indo Fijian roots. So here I am. Uh, if I, you asked me what I do 12 years ago, I would say I'm a chief executive [00:02:00] officer. So my, I'm from industry. So I work in various sectors, nonprofit, public, private practice. I started when I was a kid. Age 21, I was my first manager role.
[00:02:12] We got into the CEO role at age 31, which was crazy because they didn't tell me back then it meant you'll crack emotionally off and get it CEO. And then about 12 years ago, I transformed and created a platform, which I call my public work and it's my education company create K R E A T. So I do executive coaching, workshops, sometimes I'll do contracts for interim leadership roles.
[00:02:39] I have a podcast called The Quiet Warrior Show. I've published several books and I'm currently doing a doctoral degree to kind of look deeper into all of that and see, you know, maybe there's a, there's another pathway that's going to come out of that. So glad to be glad to be here.
[00:02:54] Amelia: I think you might have mentioned the doctoral degree when we had chatted before, but for some reason I must have missed that.
[00:02:59] [00:03:00] So perfect. You're on the sensitivity doctor. So DBA doctorate, but just kidding.
[00:03:07] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: You're you're one step ahead.
[00:03:09] Amelia: Just one. So I do love you know I had asked about the quiet warrior I was curious. I love having sensitive men on the podcast because I think sometimes sensitivity is misunderstood as being Something that is gendered, like being sensitive is a feminine quality.
[00:03:30] And that is just absolutely not true. And I was curious, first of all, did you get a chance to do the assessment?
[00:03:39] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: The wizard assessment.
[00:03:42] Amelia: Oh, have you ever done the HSP scale?
[00:03:45] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: No, that one I didn't, but I've, if it came through an email or something, I missed it. Oh, no
[00:03:50] Amelia: worries. Well, let me ask you a couple of questions and let me know.
[00:03:54] Yes or no. Most of the time. Do these apply to you? Okay.
[00:03:59] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Okay.
[00:03:59] Amelia: [00:04:00] And
[00:04:00] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): ready
[00:04:00] Amelia: even some of the time, are you deeply impacted by other people's emotions?
[00:04:06] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Absolutely. Or yes. .
[00:04:07] Amelia: Okay. , you're allowed to say. Absolutely. Um, you can see
[00:04:10] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: already. I can't stick to the script. Yes.
[00:04:12] Amelia: No, there's no script. Well, and it's funny, I'm sitting here thinking I'm almost quizzing myself.
[00:04:17] Like, how many of these traits do I know off the top of my head? Um, are you, are you very aware of like, what needs to be done in an environment in order to make other people comfortable?
[00:04:28] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Very.
[00:04:29] Amelia: Would you consider yourself deeply empathic?
[00:04:32] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: I think so. I've been told that, I've been told that when I was a kid, my mom used to say, and she's still alive today, God bless her, that people just want to be around you.
[00:04:42] When I was a leader, people would just come and start talking about things and I never really noticed, but others I know who are close to me will say, we'll walk in a room and I just know something's wrong or I can feel that. So I've learned what, you know, that's a response that I guess, [00:05:00] yeah, I'm hypersensitive in that way.
[00:05:02] Amelia: Okay. What about, uh, caffeine? Are you sensitive at all to the effects of caffeine?
[00:05:09] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: See, that's an interesting one because I'll have, uh, my wife's Italian, so I have to get used to certain types of coffee. When I was in business, when I started climbing in my career, I drank a lot of coffee, like most put the pot on, have one more in the office.
[00:05:24] Today I'll have one in the morning, but that's more for good health. I don't, but, but if I have, uh, an espresso or some coffee drink after 12, it affects my sleep for sure.
[00:05:36] Amelia: And you know, the interesting thing, what you're saying about like you're environmentally exposed to delicious espresso, for instance, or, you know, something like that based, you said your wife's Italian.
[00:05:47] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Yeah.
[00:05:49] Amelia: That's, that's something I think throws some HSPs off. They think, well, You know, I don't have any problem with public speaking, for example, if you do something enough, [00:06:00] your nervous system can become more acclimated to it. So, similarly, if you drink enough coffee, but overall, when you think about high sensitivity, essentially, it means that your nervous system is more active.
[00:06:15] and much more reactive to the good and the bad.
[00:06:19] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my life story, it's, it's many chapters. And I remember when I have a baby pictures, I should have sent one and used it on the show. And people say, even my, my friends would say, you're a sad baby. You never smiled. And I'll say, yeah, these, these muscles here, they don't work very well.
[00:06:36] And when I smile, they actually hurt, but it's always very, very serious, very emotional. Uh, and you know, out of me and my two brothers growing up, I just remember that and it's almost like, you know, I know, I understand the word shame very well and it's almost as if later in life I look back and thought about some of the things, you know, my own parents would, would say [00:07:00] about my nature and it was, it was kind of shaming.
[00:07:02] It's like, yeah, well, you know, get, get over it. I'm sensitive. I'm serious. There's nothing really wrong with me, but I discovered over my life through various circumstances that Yeah. But you know, definitely there's, there's differences there.
[00:07:18] Amelia: You bring up a really good point about especially how boys and men are treated when they have some of these traits.
[00:07:24] You said shaming.
[00:07:27] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Oh yeah.
[00:07:28] Amelia: Yeah.
[00:07:28] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Uh, well, yeah, especially, you know, so if we go step into the executive or the management roles. in society. My father was a commanding officer in the British forces and he, when he came to Canada, he became a commanding officer. So I was raised very strict. He was a chronic addicted man to alcohol.
[00:07:49] So it was a very different household that I grew up in. And then he left me when I was 12. And the interesting thing is that when you're raised that way, you just think because [00:08:00] as you know, I just learned this through neuroscience. And when I had my brain injury, which was a part of my life story. I, I just learned that as a young kid, everything was just fed into me.
[00:08:11] My brain didn't really question it. I don't have that rational brain. So, you know, I was told, you know, don't, don't cry. Be tough, Tommy, that kind of thing.
[00:08:20] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.5: What's
[00:08:21] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: very interesting, Dr. Amelia, is when I went in to start my doctoral work, I started studying masks and identity. And one of the things I'm looking at is the masks that leaders or people wear, particular men, when does the mask, when can that mask come off?
[00:08:37] When is it on? And here's the other one, which is key to what you said, I think. When is it so embedded that you can't take it off or you feel you can't? And in leadership, absolutely, especially come, I've been there. You almost feel like you want to crack a moshi off and it's tough at the top or it's tough in leadership.
[00:08:56] Every company, no matter what you do, the world's tough. But for men, [00:09:00] you know, we're taught, we're kind of have that little voice in our head from our dads. You got to be tough. You can't cry.
[00:09:06] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): And
[00:09:06] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: I had to change all that. I changed all that midway through my career, just through some self learning.
[00:09:13] Amelia: How was it that you did change that?
[00:09:14] Because I feel like so many men listening can absolutely relate. And, you know, it's kind of funny, a weird reference. Do you watch the bachelor at all?
[00:09:25] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: I did a bit, not, not religiously.
[00:09:28] Amelia: Okay. So currently they have the golden bachelorettes on, so it's all much older men and the bachelorettes much older. I am loving that they are showing these men.
[00:09:42] Be so emotional like tearful and supporting each other and loving loving each other saying I love you and and crying when one of them leaves the house and it's just so refreshing this I think this Slow movement towards the actualization that tears are [00:10:00] normal and healthy and part of a functioning body
[00:10:04] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Yeah, no, absolutely.
[00:10:07] I mean, it's interesting because you asked how how did I change? You It's like, how much time do you have? But there was a pivotal, pivotal, there was a pivotal moment that actually I believe I did change and it was at age 31 or 32. But I'll get to that in just a sec because I want to go back to my dad. My dad passed away, by the way, in January 2018 and I really miss him.
[00:10:31] And he left home when I was 12, you know, he had multiple affairs that he was, I took the brunt of, I think his physical and mental stuff, but he, uh, unfortunately he, he left us and. I just remember when I was around him, he never cried. He didn't show emotion. He was that tough military guy when he wasn't drinking.
[00:10:53] He was a super, uh, he's a good looking guy. Uh, my mom used to say, cause she met him in Fiji. He used to ride this [00:11:00] little scooter that he was her little Elvis. Cause he rode this little scooter and had his uniform. He was a good looking guy, played rugby and Fiji in high school. Oh,
[00:11:08] Amelia: I played rugby. That's why I got so excited.
[00:11:11] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Yeah. So, I mean, I'm building him up because all my life I hated him until So I never saw him having fun. He had a gregarious laugh. He was a guy who everybody liked him. When he drank, he became sort of this villain. I, they say, and you can correct me, but they say that there's the one thing boys or men struggle with the most is abandonment.
[00:11:34] And I think that affected me at age 12 because he left. So I didn't have a role model to teach me about emotion. The interesting thing is my mom was very emotive. So I being around her, however, I got into my career and I got in trouble early in my career because I was incongruent and I changed all this.
[00:11:53] And I'll, I'll tell you how it was actually through. coaching and self awareness, but I was climbing the ladder. [00:12:00] So I said this in my Ted talk that I was a, um, a self worth chaser, not a success chaser.
[00:12:06] Amelia: I
[00:12:08] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: learned that after questioning myself later in life, why did I want to be a CEO? Why did I want to be a manager?
[00:12:16] I didn't even know what it was, but I just wanted to get there. And I know a lot of guys who are, and gals too, who think they have to climb to get to a high level to feel good about themselves. So I started winning awards, getting into roles where I was doing very well and I just worked hard. That's one thing my dad taught me.
[00:12:36] He says, don't ever put your hand out, Tommy, work hard, stand out in the room. And that's another story. How do you stand out to being somebody like me in a different world? I started getting feedback on my, my first performance review and the feedback was from a coach was she was sitting in a room with me and she says, you know, you're winning awards.
[00:12:58] You're getting everything done. They [00:13:00] want you to get done around here, but there's some things if and then, uh, And some of the feedback was you're grandstanding, you're arrogant and insensitive. And I went, whoa. Now, this was in a, just to set the stage, Dr. Milley, this was in a boardroom. I was the CEO of the company.
[00:13:17] It was a company that was based in America, but I was here running the Canadian division. And it was out of practice that they just invested money and brought in a psychologist and a coach for me. And it was good, they would do that. But I never had a coach before. And now that I'm coaching others, I know a lot of people I try to coach who say, I don't need that because first of all, arrogant, incensive, you don't think you need a coach.
[00:13:42] And then sometimes it's hard to look in the mirror and get feedback. It's like, that's scary. So this, this woman would, would follow me around in meetings and she would then meet with me. So we're sitting in a boardroom that day and she gives me this feedback and I couldn't get it. Honestly, I was [00:14:00] just blind to it.
[00:14:00] I said, what are you talking about? I said, I'm getting the job done. If you knew me back then, I wasn't rude. I wasn't, I didn't yell. I wasn't that type of personality, but there was something about me that was putting people off. It was that one thing. I wasn't real. I was showing up incongruent. So I didn't connect to people emotionally.
[00:14:21] I didn't take the time to, if they're in a meeting and they're slumping in their chairs because we're having, it's a stressful situation maybe we're dealing with, I didn't see that. And what I realized is that That's really who I am. I'm actually that kind of person. Oh my God. I, I am, like, I wear it on my sleeve.
[00:14:40] But what had happened is I developed this mask or this crust on me because of the way the, I, I guess the way my brain was wired from being under command and control from that type of father. Don't cry, be tough. You know, get high, kick your butt if you don't get a's in school, that type of thing.
[00:14:59] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Mm-Hmm.
[00:14:59] [00:15:00] So I
[00:15:00] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: naturally went into leadership without mentors and said, that's how you lead people. And I was using that same type of, I guess, rules in mar in marriage. My first marriage, seven years, was, uh, it didn't work out after seven years. It wasn't because of her. And people asked me, how can you say this? I said, well, it's, yeah, I can say it now.
[00:15:21] It's probably because of me. Because I was insensitive. And I was probably not as good a person in that relationship. So when I get to 31, this is the end of this, this story. And I get that feedback. Basically, I denied the feedback and I know a lot of people in business at higher levels that I coach and I know I've known in my career that are like that.
[00:15:43] They just won't take the feedback and I think there's enough evidence that says the gaps in performance in companies is directly correlated to the blind spots of the leader. So I couldn't gel a team. I couldn't get people together and connect. I [00:16:00] ignored it, but after about six months, I remember being down in Florida in a golf cart with one of the board members, and he just ripped me.
[00:16:08] And he said something like this, and I can say it because I won't tell you the company, but he looks at me, he goes, if you want to be the man, you've got to, you got to be able to be two places at once and you, you got to change some things. And that's the point where I got pretty, a bit of fear was in me.
[00:16:24] So I remember coming back, sitting down with my coach and the next session, she was giving me more feedback and there was lots of positives, but there's this one kind of thing. And then she kept hammering on me. In other words, hammering looks like this. Yeah. But Tom, people are sensing this. Some of your teams say that sometimes it's all about the agenda and blah, blah, blah.
[00:16:45] And then I welled up. See, I don't cry easy because I have to dig into that still. I don't think it's rooted back deep. I started welling up. We're in a boardroom and there's glass and the team. I could see the people I work with outside and I turned my [00:17:00] head. I said, if anybody asks you what's going on after just say I had a, you know, I have allergies because I started to almost cry.
[00:17:07] And I looked at her and I said this, I said, stop. I see you're sounding like my dad.
[00:17:14] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Wow. And
[00:17:15] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: that, that was the moment in my life where I knew something was broken deep inside. And from age 31 to, for the next 10 years, I did heavy, heavy, heavy self development coaching, reading, learning. And, uh, and I basically had to, I learned how to be more aware of other people's feelings.
[00:17:39] I practiced, I call it almost like skills. But you know, level two listening, meaning I'm leaning into you like we're on a first date and I can't wait for the next thing coming out of your mouth. That was foreign to me because my mind was always That's why you're going to
[00:17:51] Amelia: your podcast.
[00:17:53] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Well, thank you. But my mind was always here because And by the way, leaders are like that, right?
[00:17:58] High pressure, they're [00:18:00] But, but I had to practice and I had to learn and I had to identify when I was at my worst, when my ego came out, and then practice how to shift that. And there's a lot more to that I can talk about, but, you know, 31 was sort of the beginning. And I'd say it took me two years to make some wholesale changes and I did it.
[00:18:19] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): And,
[00:18:20] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: uh, after going through that and meeting a few psychologists, some of them will, and you, you're an expert, I know, have told me that some people will never. shift like that because they have to want to. And I had a reason to want to, to do it.
[00:18:37] Amelia: You know, first of all, thank you for sharing all that. I, I got to know you a little bit before, but I feel like I have such a better picture of you and where and how you got to where you are.
[00:18:48] And something that just really jumped out at me from your story is That, that started so young for you was the [00:19:00] image or the idea of toughening up, keeping it in, and being like rock solid. And I've noticed so many men come through my doors in my therapy office thinking that they have anger management issues, when in fact almost always, they are a highly sensitive person who did not have an environment that supported their sensitivity.
[00:19:29] And so it's, it's almost like the seesaw effect where if you're hyper managing your sensitivity through hyper masking, it can become this like really heightened barrier to the person. Right. And so when I hear you saying, I noticed things in my environment, like my coworkers slumping in their chair, but I didn't give myself the opportunity to tap into my natural gifts and my natural awareness.
[00:19:58] I would just blow [00:20:00] past it and keep on going. That's almost in a way denying your true nature, which can cause so many issues. So I think that's so beautiful that. You almost become stronger in allowing yourself to notice your actual true nature. Thanks
[00:20:20] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: for it. Thanks for saying that. He has so many things are going on in my head when you say that.
[00:20:24] What's interesting is it wasn't easy because even today at leadership, if you step into roles, there's other people that are your bosses who are, are tough and insensitive and sometimes It's hard for you to change. It's hard for you to remove that mask. When I say something about the, some of the things I remember doing, I remember one of the things, cause I'm a good storyteller.
[00:20:48] Like I really like to tell stories. I've learned to say, do that when everyone, when you're, I'm speaking to your audience, but when you're going fast as a leader, just take a moment to stop. You [00:21:00] know, express something that you know about your employee or the person you're with. Like for example, sometimes when I do training, I'll demonstrate this.
[00:21:09] I would walk into the office, for example, in the morning. This is the old Tom, the arrogant and sensitive go fast kind of, uh, High performing Tom and I'd come in I'd be running into a meeting and I'd say to the person who's running the admin desk Hey, can you do me a favor? I I wonder if you can get me that file and just throw it in the boardroom Got a meeting coming up.
[00:21:30] I just walk by walk in my office, right?
[00:21:33] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): This is
[00:21:33] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: how I would, how I shifted, Hey, uh, good morning. Hey, I'm, I'm late. I'm running into the office. I need that file. It'd be great if you get it. And by the way, it was your daughter's birthday on the weekend. Afterwards. Can you just make sure I take, I want to sit down and just see how that went.
[00:21:50] Uh, he must've had a, he must've had a great weekend. I was thinking about it. So little things like that. And I did a lot of work with neuroscience, learning about my [00:22:00] brain since my brain injury happened in 2018. And, uh, Do you mind
[00:22:05] Amelia: telling the listeners how that happened? Because it's not the story people would typically think.
[00:22:11] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Yeah, sure. Let me, uh, let me put a placeholder on what, what I was saying and I'll g I'll, I'll step into that for sure. Uh, the, um, uh, yeah, let me just spit this out and then I'll go into that.
[00:22:25] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Yeah.
[00:22:26] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: What I learned is that everyone in, if you wanna know a hack, a brain hack on how to actually get somebody to like you really fast, and they use it in the making of movies, by the way, Dr.
[00:22:35] Mil. Uh, movies like Star Wars and stuff like that is, uh, you want. to hack the other person's brain by getting them to feel that, hey, there's something that Tom and I have in common.
[00:22:48] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): And
[00:22:48] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: if you can do that quickly, and it's a bit of skill, but you can do it, then all of a sudden the brain releases certain chemicals.
[00:22:56] One is called oxytocin, which Dr. Paul Zak, who's a [00:23:00] neuroscientist in the U. S. who I met through my work, says that he calls it the love chemical. Now, if oxytocin starts flowing, then I'm going like, If, if it's flowing in my brain, I'm going like, Hey, I kind of like Dr. Me. I think I'm going to stay a while. I think I'm going to talk to her.
[00:23:17] And it can be as simple as you saying, Hey, Tom, that jacket. I really liked the look on you, that jacket. And I go, wow, thanks.
[00:23:22] Amelia: And,
[00:23:23] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: uh, and, and, and, and I see that you appreciate clothes and you're wearing something nice to it. It's, it's a nice look or, We, we could tell a little story or say something and all of a sudden it's like the other person goes, wow, me too.
[00:23:38] They don't necessarily say it and there's a skill you can, when you learn to do that, it's not hard to do that with people and it's about slowing down and taking a moment to really be aware. And by being aware, you can learn a lot about other people. Uh, the brain injury is crazy. Everyone, this [00:24:00] happened to who, who knows dates, right?
[00:24:02] August 26th, 2018. So this is what happened. I'll tell you the backstory. So at that, if you go back to 2017, Dr. Amelia, I, my, My education companies roaring away, I'm doing my work, I'm earning income, my podcast, my, my author work, all those things that I shaped my career. And my father, I told you that my dad walked out when I was
[00:24:30] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): 12,
[00:24:30] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: he did.
[00:24:32] And the house was sold and, you know, and literally homeless for that part of my life and had two brothers, long story behind that. However, that. Uh, for whatever reason, I think it was through prayer, because I'm faith based, so I really found faith in my life later. I remember it was 2017, and my dad wanted to get us, the two boys he called it always, the boys, get them together.
[00:24:57] My mom, you know, him, we're [00:25:00] separate, divorced, 32 years. My dad used to want to be back in our lives, and sadly, I just rejected that. You know, all his life, he didn't have his boys, which I kind of feel, sad for him. And so I was coaching a young man who had a traumatic event in his life and he told me a story about his own dad and he said his dad was a Drug and when he was younger, he left home and I'm going like oh me too and the oxytocin is flooding my brain And so here I am I coached this guy over zoom and I said him you guys I think we got to work on the dad Story and so I said you keep bringing that up.
[00:25:35] He woes me dad story. I said by the way, I have one too So what had happened was his dad was, had contacted him and wanted to get together and play some sports and for the first time in a decade reconnect and learn about him and his daughter and his family. I encouraged him to do it. I said, you need to do that.
[00:25:55] I said, there's ways you're going to do it and you'll sort it out, make that [00:26:00] a priority for yourself. And I remember I said to him, I said, you know, forgiveness is a big thing. And if you forgive someone, it's, you're not forgiving bad behavior. Like my dad was physically abusive mentally to, to me. And I don't forgive him for those things.
[00:26:15] If there's abuse and you've written some good things on this, there's, you can forgive someone to release them. So when you, I forgave my dad for all that, I released him and it actually helped me free myself. Right. But abuse is abuse. There is a line and you know, it is what, it is, it is bad. So people tend not to forgive.
[00:26:34] I hear people say, how can I forgive him because he hurt me so bad? You're not forgiving the bad behavior. That's the way I put it. So I said to this guy, do this. Two weeks later, I get a text message and he goes, Oh my God, he says, I've never slept so good in my life. And, you know, as a coach or a therapist yourself, you know, when you get that kind of feedback, makes you feel good.
[00:26:54] It's like, Oh, I guess I did something pretty good today.
[00:26:57] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.5: Make
[00:26:57] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: a little note in my journal so I can go read that and [00:27:00] remind myself. And, and I got up out of my chair, out of my computer. After seeing his message, I went into the, I remember I went into the bathroom. I was doing something. I looked in the mirror and I said, you idiot.
[00:27:14] Because here I was, I had never done that with my own dad. So I picked up my phone and I sent a text message to my dad. This was around Thanksgiving 2017 in our country, Canada. I said, dad, okay. I said, dinner ain't gonna happen, dad. But I said, I'll get together for coffee. So we met at a Starbucks not far from where he lived.
[00:27:37] He lived in an apartment in what's called New Westminster, British Columbia. And I'd never seen his apartment and remember I'd never seen him since I was like 12 years old.
[00:27:46] Amelia: Wow. Yeah, and this is you were in your early 30s at this point you said?
[00:27:52] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: No, maybe, no, much later than that. Oh,
[00:27:55] Amelia: later. Okay. This was only,
[00:27:56] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: this was only seven years ago.
[00:27:58] Amelia: Seven years ago. Okay.
[00:27:59] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Yeah. Okay. [00:28:00] So you can figure out, guess who I am now. I'm not going to say it. Let's play guess
[00:28:04] Amelia: the age. No, I'm just kidding.
[00:28:06] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Probably, probably, probably, uh, embarrass myself, but, um, And by the way, everybody, when I'm talking, sometimes I lose my train of thought because I did have a brain injury and I'll talk about that because I had, sometimes my thoughts just jumble.
[00:28:18] So when I, so my dad, so I said, so this is how it happened. I basically, I put on my jeans. I got my black t shirt because that's kind of my look. I get to the Starbucks, right? And. I'm totally nervous. I'm melting in an emotional puddle in my gut. He's not there. I walk up to the door, I open the door and it's like, whoosh, you smell this smell of coffee in your face and you hear Well, it was
[00:28:42] Amelia: November, so it's probably pumpkin spice, right?
[00:28:44] I'm just kidding. Probably.
[00:28:46] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Yeah. And then you hear that milk frothing and then the barista looks and says, Hey, well, how are you doing? So good. I'm like, don't talk to me. I just got to, and I remember looking at the Starbucks and there was the counter where they're making coffee. I said, I think I'll take that [00:29:00] table over there.
[00:29:00] And because if I sat at that table, I can sat on that side and I can see the door like I was a mess
[00:29:07] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): and
[00:29:08] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: I'm not even sure why I was there at that moment. So I sit down and all of a sudden, 10 minutes later, the door opens and it's dad and he's this. Man, you know, he used to be tall, taller in my mind, but he was a shorter guy.
[00:29:22] He had a goatee beard, a bit dark, he always had black, jet black hair. His complexion being a Fijian was darker than mine, but not really dark, dark, still fair. And he looked old and like kind of frail. And I think he was in his eighties or something. So he comes over and he sits down across me at the table and he goes, I don't say anything.
[00:29:43] He leans over and he looks at me in the eyes says, son, how are you? He says, I love you. He says, I release you. I'm so sorry. And he, he pours his heart out and I just, I was sort of like, I [00:30:00] didn't have no idea what I'm going to say to him. I had never seen that side of him. But it's like God put us together in this moment for him to be able to say that.
[00:30:08] And then the rest of the half hour, I just sat and listened to him. And I want to share this as part of the story with your audience. If anybody's hurt you, anyone, and especially the guys out there, make the time to make a connection before it's too late.
[00:30:22] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): So my
[00:30:22] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: dad's talking to me. And I say, Dad, uh, oh, yeah, he says, I love your book because I wrote a book.
[00:30:28] Well, I've, I've written a few books, but the one I wrote didn't put him in a good light in the first chapter. The first chapter of my book's called The Boy. And I use, um, fables and I change identities and things, but it depicts what it was like in my house.
[00:30:42] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Mm hmm.
[00:30:42] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: And that book, uh, has had 200 reviews written on it.
[00:30:46] So a lot of people who read it have made comments that it's, it did change their view of their lives in a, in a. better way because I talked about that, but also talked about how I, now I was not, how I navigated through [00:31:00] that. So we get to later in the conversation, dad goes, I said, dad, it's getting too uncomfortable.
[00:31:06] Why don't we meet again in the new year? And I'll get you on the phone. And at Christmas, I told him that so he could talk to my daughter who I blocked my daughter in his life for a long time. So we give this big hug. It took a selfie. It's on my wall in my office here, blown out big. So, I went from him being the villain to a guy I hated to all of a sudden when he said I love you and all that, it just melted off my shoulder because for most guys, they don't know their dads love them.
[00:31:33] Their dads, for whatever reason, it's not always their fault. They don't do a good job of expressing it. Maybe they had that. Mm hmm. In my bloodline, there's, there's actually a generational trauma, so my dad's dad was an alcoholic.
[00:31:45] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Mm hmm.
[00:31:45] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: And there's a chapter in Indo Fijian history of slavery. which I'm just researching now.
[00:31:52] So this trauma passes down. It's a real thing, as you know. So he leaves and so it's [00:32:00] Christmas. He's on the phone with my daughter and I can see everything. My daughter's happy. January. I'm watching football. I don't watch football, by the way, but I'm watching NFL, sitting on the couch in the living room and a text comes in from my uncle, Tom, my namesake.
[00:32:14] And he, it says, call your mom. There's be an emergency. My uncle's 80 something. He never texts because he doesn't allow. I pick up the phone. I call my mom and, and she says this, she says, I'm, I'm sorry to tell you son, but your, your father died.
[00:32:28] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Oh no.
[00:32:30] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: And my dad had a heart attack in his bed by himself.
[00:32:34] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): And,
[00:32:35] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: uh, and I remember I got up off the couch.
[00:32:38] I walked in down the hallway into the bathroom. I looked at Anna and I just said, dad died. And she knew she didn't have to say anything. And I just kind of have with this dump field. So anyway. Let's get to the accident. So there's an important reason for that. Before
[00:32:55] Amelia: you move on to the accident though, I just want to thank you for being so [00:33:00] vulnerable and sharing all that and how you were Like really pointing such an important, uh, finger at the fact that whether it be your father, that you don't feel that love from, or your mother or whoever it is.
[00:33:15] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Yeah.
[00:33:15] Amelia: Um, it can have such a deep impact on boys and girls. And if you are a man who's sensitive or a man who's not sensitive and you've experienced, sometimes I talk about the difference between independence and abandonment and how a lot of folks who have been abandoned. can then go on into their life to become hyper independent.
[00:33:38] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Yeah.
[00:33:39] Amelia: But really independence is a much more empowered and a much more expansive and joyful place when you can separate it from abandonment. And it feels like that was a huge part in your journey. And I do agree. You're an exceptionally good storyteller because I felt like I was at Starbucks with you.
[00:33:59] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Oh goodness. [00:34:00] Well, thanks. Thank you. Uh, yeah, I'm thirsty now. I think a hot chocolate and some whipped cream on it. So basically. What happened was, is that I, I, I felt this weight off my shoulder. Honestly, all the pain just disappeared for the first time. And what I learned is, and I wrote about this in, in some things, that I was really seeking the acceptance of my dad.
[00:34:21] It can be, everybody can be as simple as that. I love you, son. Three words that somewhere in your brain, it just doesn't have that. It's got too much pollution, too much. You're an idiot. You're stupid. I could tell you things my dad said about us, privately and publicly. You just don't want to hear because most of it was when he was very drunk.
[00:34:40] And by the way, if anybody wants to know how my dad stopped drinking, he, uh, almost broadsided a woman and child and killed him in driving drunk. He lost his job. He lost his children and his relationship with my mom. And that's what put him into AA. So this is a cool part of the story. There's redemption.
[00:34:58] There's hope. My, [00:35:00] when I did my father's funeral, first of all, I had to have two brothers who chickened out. They wouldn't do the eulogy. So here I am trying to craft a story. We had a hundred people in the room and we, he was cremated, but we had everything set up and we did a PowerPoint with pictures. I couldn't find.
[00:35:17] It was, it was scary because I could not find 20 years worth of anything because I was not in his life. And it's the first time it reminded me that how crazy it is, because trust me, everyone, Millie, Dr. Millie, later in life, like now I sit on the couch because my daughter's in university, she's out of the house, and I look at photo albums and memories.
[00:35:39] And man, I wish I had some memories with my dad in it. So we do the eulogy and I actually wrote the eulogy and I did a podcast on it. And it was called the, um, uh, From Unforgiven to Forgiven. And I model it after Clint Eastwood's movie, The Unforgiven, one of my favorite westerns.
[00:35:57] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): And
[00:35:57] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: I told the story of my dad being [00:36:00] a villain.
[00:36:01] Who became, in my eyes, a victim when I learned the truth about his own story. Who became a hero. So what my dad told me over that coffee was that his dad was a drunk. His dad died when he was young.
[00:36:13] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): My
[00:36:13] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: dad learned to swim, by the way, in Fiji by being pushed off a bridge.
[00:36:17] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Oh my goodness. It was,
[00:36:18] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: it was tough for my dad.
[00:36:20] Then he went in the army where he, you know, drinking starts and all that. Uh, So we're doing the eulogy finishes and there's a hundred people and then there's a lineup and there's my two brothers on each side of me and all these people one by one start coming up. I didn't know most people in the room.
[00:36:35] It was kind of embarrassing because that's how disconnected. First person comes up, this lady with a daughter, teenage daughter, and she says, she looks at me, not my brothers. So first of all, it was uncomfortable. She goes, your dad talked about you all the time. And this is my daughter. He saved my daughter's life.
[00:36:52] Yeah. And then the next person, your father was a pillar in the community. And the next person, your dad did this. [00:37:00] I learned that my dad went into prisons and he would go in there and he would do men's groups, meditations. So through AA, 22 years, he was in AA until I reconnected with him. And then he died.
[00:37:12] Sadly, he, he went through this whole redemption and forgiveness himself and going back to others. So again, going back to the thread in my story, everyone, forgiveness is important. My dad. I think he forgave me. Or he, he passed forgiveness and said, sorry, I think that freed him and that's why he passed because he was ready.
[00:37:33] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): He
[00:37:33] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: was ready to move on. He was in pain and he just needed to hear that. So sometimes I know it's morbid, but I gave my dad something he needed to be free from pain. And so, sometimes that step, and by the way, to get to a level of forgiveness, me going to actually have coffee with him, I had to do a lot of therapy, a lot of counseling, a lot of reading and self work.
[00:37:54] So everybody, it didn't come easy,
[00:37:56] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): just as I
[00:37:57] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: told you, I'm telling my coaching client, you better do [00:38:00] this,
[00:38:00] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): and
[00:38:00] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: yet I'm scared, you know what, here, as a coward, but I, I, I got myself through that. So, I bury my dad, it's January 2018, and then I'm sitting in my patio in my house with a guy named, uh, Roger. Roger was a partner in an engineering firm here.
[00:38:18] locally, one of the largest engineering firms in our country, Roger's daughter, Meredith died from leukemia when she was 10 years old, sadly. So he's, it's just to paint the picture. We're sitting on my patio. I would do coaching at a home base and we would sit outside. We're having a beer, you know, the wind's blowing and we've got some of those tall brush and it's going like this in the breeze and you see the shadows over here and the flowers and it's a beautiful like spring day.
[00:38:46] And Roger goes, you want to do the ride to conquer cancer? And I said, what's that? He goes, Oh, it's 225 kilometers, which in your land, it's 150 miles or something
[00:38:57] Amelia: like equating that
[00:38:59] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: on your bicycle in [00:39:00] two days. I went, and that's how I am. I just went, yes, I'm in probably. That was ingrained in me. Just do and figure it out later.
[00:39:09] I said, I don't have a bike, man. He goes, you'll figure it out. So I borrowed a buddy's bike, a friend of mine. John, who actually rode for ALS because his son was dying of ALS. So this bike riding thing was like, this is cool. Roger Cisneros passed away. And me and my wife, we've been doing this ride for 10 years.
[00:39:25] This is our 10th year, Tom. And he said, we're going to pass the million dollar fundraising mark. Wow, that's very cool. So his team was 80 riders, 80 bike riders. And there was about 1700 riders that day in the ride. So, here I am in the spring. I have three months to train. I've trained my butt off. It is hot.
[00:39:46] There's fires burning because of climate change. I remember doing my first sentry ride on my bike, which was a training ride, when you hit a hundred kilometers. That's brutal. And that was in my first month training. I hit 100 kilometers. Now [00:40:00] remember, I, you don't know this, but I hadn't ridden a bike since I was probably 10 years old.
[00:40:04] My dad took the training wheels off my bike and that was probably the last time I rode a bike. So I'm having to train for this ride to conquer cancer. So I train, I'm in great condition, and the ride is August 22nd. Six that kicks off from a place called, uh, the Cloverdale Fairgrounds. It's like a horse racing track here.
[00:40:25] And if you get there, it's like the, you know, dawn and dusk, right? So the dawn, the sun hadn't cracked yet. And we're on this fairground with like 1600 bikes, guys, gals, all their uniforms. You got a number and all that. There's a big stage. The media is there. They got their cameras, you know, they got video playing.
[00:40:44] And then this guy says, All right, riders, are you ready to start the ride to conquer cancer? And we're all like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. We're kind of asleep. He says, Yes! He goes, Now look to your right and look to your left. And you see all those yellow flags on the bikes? [00:41:00] And about half the bikes, half of 1600 bikes had yellow flags.
[00:41:04] He said, Those people riding have either beat cancer or they're in treatment.
[00:41:08] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Oh, wow. Can you imagine?
[00:41:11] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Now, everybody, don't complain. From that moment on in my life, I never complained. Just
[00:41:15] Amelia: do it. And
[00:41:15] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: so any, so the ride started. We kicked off. So you could ride at your own pace. It's not a race. The hills and all that, it's brutal.
[00:41:22] And I remember this one guy whizzes by me, and he must have been in his 70s, and he's got a yellow flag. And I met him at the first rest stop. Every 25 kilometers, there's a rest stop with hydration food. I go, what's your story? And he tells me what he's going through. And I went, man. And he just zipped by me, right?
[00:41:38] So I was like, why? I don't know. I've got to get in shape, but that guy's got cancer. So from that moment on, it actually taught me something about resilience, right? That people who have cancer, they, they don't have a choice. So I get to the first hundred and twenty five kilometers. We get to a place called Hope, British Columbia, uh, sorry, no, Chilliwack, British Columbia.
[00:41:58] There's another base [00:42:00] and all the bikes. And we put our bikes and then went to a motel we stayed in with eight of us. So Roger put us up in a motel. We were special, I guess. My wife came, she had the SUV, so she didn't ride. She was just sort of falling around. And, uh, I go to shower because there's a team dinner.
[00:42:18] And this is where my life changed. So I get, I strip down, strip off everything. And I, you know, Totally 125k soaking wet, you know, from a ride. So you go have a shower. I stepped into this bathtub. It was a low profile tub. I stepped in like one foot in over the lip of the tub. Two feet. I put the water on first, by the way.
[00:42:38] Then I turned this way. By the way, I'm not treating you like you don't know how to have a shower, everybody. It's kind of cool if you go through what I did that you start thinking about how you have a shower. And I went like this, and the base of the tub was like, I swear it was so slippery. My feet were shifting, and then all of a sudden, I'm looking at the front of the showerhead, uh, my feet are going [00:43:00] like this, and my both feet went out like that, and I fell backwards with the force of 185 pound man.
[00:43:07] I fell backwards and I broke the fall of my head. I cracked the backsplash of the tub with my head. The top of my head actually rammed into that like a battering ram because I was trying to break my fall, but The worst part is the back, which is here, inside where your vision center is. That hit the porcelain lip of the tub, split, and I blacked out.
[00:43:29] Amelia: I would imagine.
[00:43:30] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: So every symptom you could think of.
[00:43:33] Amelia: Now
[00:43:34] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: you talk to hockey players, I know some professional sports athletes, many of them get their bell rung and think it's just a bell rung.
[00:43:40] Amelia: It's very serious.
[00:43:42] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: I had all these things. My gate was off. I couldn't walk straight. I actually couldn't get my words out and articulate thoughts.
[00:43:49] I had a major headache. So what I did that night was I sat in the bed and I was just leaning against the headboard. It was this bit of dungy, kind of a dark motel. [00:44:00] Probably like a Stephen King movie, it could have been. And I'm sitting, uh, leaning on the headboard and my wife's getting upset and she says, you're not writing tomorrow, finishing this thing.
[00:44:09] Amelia: I agree.
[00:44:11] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: And I, so I don't say anything and again, again, you think about the, my wiring and what I went through in my life, that the, some of the stories I've told you, some of it I haven't. I didn't sleep more than four hours. And, and we were supposed to go to the team truck in the morning. Guess what I do?
[00:44:28] I get up. I grab a bag of Tylenol because they told us in training bring Tylenol because the next day your muscles gonna ache.
[00:44:35] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.5: I
[00:44:35] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: get my Tylenol. I put on my riding gear. The helmet I put on my head and actually it is so sore on top of my head.
[00:44:42] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.5: We
[00:44:42] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: didn't know till after that I had lacerations here that matched the tub, the way the tub was split.
[00:44:47] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.5: Mm
[00:44:49] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: I go and I go down the stairs and I get to the team truck and Roger and a few people there and I tell Roger what happened and I do the ride and Roger, they all said [00:45:00] Tom. You shouldn't be doing this, but at every 20k there's emergency services. If anything doesn't feel right, you stop. We'll get you to the hospital.
[00:45:10] So I basically climbed on my bike. It was pouring rain too. The second day was horrible. Cold pouring rain and I just remember that I pat my head down because I had glasses on and I just slowly peddle. And I remember just praying saying, you know, just one, it'll be one more, one more, but just keep pushing, keep pushing.
[00:45:30] And I, I learned this through positive affirmations and my own, uh, developing mental health skills to focus on positive thoughts. So I did everything I could mentally. to stop at every rest stop. So I come back and so everybody finished. We were supposed to do a ride through over the line. I finished last and I remember coming over the line on the bike and I was so sick and I just sort of like I did it.
[00:45:54] My wife was there and I carry this in my pocket when I go do public speaking. I don't always show it but it's hanging [00:46:00] in my office and it's my um, my medal. They put this on my neck. I finished the ride even though it took me twice as long but Somebody asked me why, somebody asked me why did you get up?
[00:46:13] This is, this is my answer. It's a, it's a God filled answer. It's the truth. It's like people who had, have cancer don't have a choice. People are beat up like me as a kid, didn't have a choice. You have to, you have to keep moving forward and when you're in service to other people, you can do extraordinary things.
[00:46:31] So because I was writing for Meredith and five other people I knew had cancer, that I couldn't let them down. And my, my, my brain basically convinced itself because it didn't, know what it didn't know.
[00:46:43] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): And
[00:46:43] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: so there's extraordinary ability that we have. So it took me, that was 2018, August 26th. I slipped into depression within two months.
[00:46:53] My first thoughts of suicide all that there's so much to the story four or five years [00:47:00] I still have some double vision and light sensitivity, which we're trying to fix but through neuro brain brain clinic and that kind of stuff I got my physical stuff sorted but for the for three years after that accident, I couldn't work my life changed my Practice stopped.
[00:47:16] It was crazy. Well, I
[00:47:17] Amelia: do think it is exceptional that you did that. Um, I am amazed at the fortitude you had with your, your mind and, and that or
[00:47:27] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): stupidity.
[00:47:29] Amelia: Well, I didn't want to say that, but I did want to just kind of put out there the utter importance. If someone experiences a traumatic brain injury, Not to do what you did um and to Seek medical attention and rest.
[00:47:46] That's a very big myth about Um tbi as long as someone's not actively sick. They actually need sleep Because like you said the symptoms are not always immediate the brain is
[00:47:59] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): so
[00:47:59] Amelia: [00:48:00] It is so crucial. I actually had the neurofeedback doctor that treated my husband after he was hit by a drunk driver You Um, was on my podcast months ago, and he was talking about how they're now realizing it's not just Things like neurofeedback and rest, but it's also flooding the brain with electrolytes flooding the brain with certain nutrition.
[00:48:23] Like there's things you can do for the brain to help it heal. Um, yeah, but I mean, such, such an amazing example of my goodness, you hit so many things from forgiveness to resilience to you said earlier in your story, when you were saying the example of what you could say to your coworker. Do you want to know my favorite part of what you said to that coworker?
[00:48:48] It wasn't, how's your day going? It wasn't good morning. My favorite thing you said. Was I'm running late. And the reason is because it was [00:49:00] honest and it was transparent and it was vulnerable.
[00:49:03] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Well, thank you for that. Wow.
[00:49:05] Amelia: Yeah, that was my favorite part of what you said. And it's really the big piece of why I'm, I'm so glad that you've come on to talk to people is an example of what it can look like to be.
[00:49:18] A vulnerable, sensitive man, but also a warrior. I mean, you have your, all of your stuff around the quiet warrior. And I have to say part of me almost wants to like rebrand and insert sensitive, sensitive warrior.
[00:49:34] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: It's kind of funny because my professor Kate McGuire in London, that's where my doctoral is done.
[00:49:38] She meant we talked about the title of my book and that title. We've had those discussions, but. Uh, there's a whole story behind that too, but the quiet warrior actually came out of my the discussion I had with a mentor about creating my business and writing my first book.
[00:49:54] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): And
[00:49:55] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: what I've learned looking back is back then in life, I had a lot of, I had [00:50:00] armor on, so fear of being hurt, especially as a man who's tough, but has all this stuff going on that I hadn't resolved.
[00:50:06] So, uh, I was tough. I was a warrior. I, I was like, I could slay dragons and do anything I set my mind to, but I was very quiet and, uh, you know, almost afraid to show that strength. The, the, the one thing I did want to mention about, because, because it's along the same lines of the great work you do, is why the accident was such a huge moment in my life.
[00:50:29] Is it, it, um, You know, when you think everyone that you're, you're finally getting over things and you're up here and things are going great, winter will come. So, I mean, if you pray or whatever, have your faith in front of you, winter always comes, prepare yourself for it. And, you know, you'll always get through it.
[00:50:48] because I bear my dad. I think I'm free. My business was rising. Everything was great. You know, my daughter's in university. I think for the first time in my life, I'm happy. And then that happens. But what happened through that [00:51:00] chapter, which was really the biggest change for me since the accident was mental health.
[00:51:06] So sleep, um, my first thoughts are suicide and all that, but basically I denied getting help. It scared the hell out of me when I had my first suicidal thoughts. They sent me, my doctor sent me to work at Costco as a night stalker for two years. I waited tables at a restaurant, beer and pizza for a year, so three years.
[00:51:25] I was a C level or performing at that level as a business owner to minimum wage and doing these things to survive. And, uh, I put on my cross and I started praying. When I was a kid, I was baptized Catholic, but I was angry at my faith because of what happened in my life. Uh, I kept denying it, so everybody, this is a message from me to anyone.
[00:51:47] If you're having thoughts, if you feel depressed or anxious or stressed, uh, I'll say get a checkup from the NECA, but now I tell all my friends, every leader, every human being should have a therapist, a [00:52:00] counselor, somebody in their care team. And we have to make physical and mental health come together as one.
[00:52:04] That's the new culture.
[00:52:06] Amelia: Agreed. I
[00:52:06] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: started seeing a psychiatrist three years ago, and he unraveled my suicidal ideation. And then he put me into CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, which I know you know what that is. But to everybody out there, man, I learned 166 skills on how to know how my thoughts work and how to change and manage them.
[00:52:27] And it's called cognitive behavioral therapy. Cognitive is your cognition. behaviors, how your thoughts behave, and therapy is therapy. I have a workbook, and what I started doing, Dr. Emilia, is I took 10 of the best skills out of that, and I started teaching it to my coaching clients.
[00:52:45] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): And I
[00:52:45] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: had one after one, they would say, where did you learn that?
[00:52:48] I wish I knew that before I started parenting my, my son and my daughter, I wish I had that. And I remember, I'll just finish with this on it, that I did so much therapy. I did a group [00:53:00] therapy with like 20 people for, for 12 weeks. That's where I got my workbook. And you would come for two hours, listen to the doctors, teach, go away, do self work from the workbook, come back.
[00:53:11] And there's 166 different skills they taught us. And they said, take the ones that work. So one of my favorite skills, for example, is called a happy distraction. If you're stressed or whatever, go do something that makes you happy. So I love to cook. I love to go for walks in nature. Um, and, uh, at the end of the course, we're all sitting in the room.
[00:53:30] And now you have to remember, if you haven't been into mental health therapy, everyone, doctor, you know this from being one to one with people. Over on my left here, there's like a square, uh, rectangular room, 20 people. Young lady over here breaks out crying every 20 minutes. Young lady. Multiple personal disorder, personality disorder, something they call it over here.
[00:53:52] Guy two doors down from me at the table says he, he, he's there because he had a heart attack three months ago and his [00:54:00] whole life changed, got divorced, can't cope with it. I sat in that room going like, Oh my God, I'm not that bad. But at the end they asked one question. What did you all, what was the biggest thing you got out of this program?
[00:54:12] Everybody said, why didn't we learn this when we're in our younger years? Why don't they teach this in school? You know what the psychiatrist said? In order to get access to it, you have to be diagnosed with a mental illness. And I thought, how stupid is that? This is my country. And so what I've been doing, my mission is, and this is going back a few years now, is I've taken those skills and in my second book, I published it last year, I put 10, Mental health skills, hacks you can use.
[00:54:41] I teach it to friends of mine. And I say I'm not a doctor, but here's two or three skills, little brain hacks you can use. And it's making, it's making a difference. So. Get a checkup from the neck up, get help, see a Dr. Amelia. But everyone, you can do things for yourself. When I was in my dark, quiet moment, sitting in [00:55:00] my living room, ruminating for two years and then going to stock of produce at Costco.
[00:55:05] When I was doing that, I, I just forced, I just found things talking to people, there's, there's so much stuff out there. That you can you can get for mental health.
[00:55:16] Amelia: Well, you certainly I mean you certainly align with Literally what I have thought of my mission my whole life Is that there's really no reason to have a therapist only when there's a crisis.
[00:55:27] I think it would be Fantastic for our culture and for humanity If it was just a normalized thing, we have a family doctor. Why not a family therapist that's on call if Something comes up or
[00:55:39] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: exactly
[00:55:40] Amelia: there's also therapists that are very, you know, solution focused. If you just want to go in and address one thing or people like myself, where I'm kind of more, I call it peeling back the onion.
[00:55:51] Like I'll be with you through the different layers of life. Um, so I just want to thank you so much for coming on today. You have like so [00:56:00] many. So many things within your story, I think people can resonate with, and I'm curious if they wanted to get your books, learn a little bit more about you, listen to your podcast, which I think I'm going to be coming on back at some point, talking about a different book, um, where can they find you?
[00:56:16] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Yeah, no, thank you very much. I've got those two books actually right here in my books that I'll be reading. I'll definitely have you back.
[00:56:23] Amelia: I love that those are books because the way they're stacked, they kind of look like CDs. It's gonna mix a track.
[00:56:30] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: Until, until I tried to pull one out and they all come down.
[00:56:33] I need, I need room. My favorite thing to do, by the way, everyone is. I do host a podcast and there's a lot of people like Dr. Mealie, brilliant have written books. I always ask. the, the author to sign it. So every book I have is personally signed by the author. It's just so special and meaningful. Um, where can you get a hold of me?
[00:56:53] The it's triple W. I don't know why people say that anymore. Of course, we know there's three W's before [00:57:00] URL. So create is a play on words. So it's K. As in kitten, R E A T dot C A. My, all my public works there. So there's a book page. Now that you give me a chance to do a shameless plug, I'll just do
[00:57:13] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): it.
[00:57:15] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: This is the first book, The Way of the Quiet Warrior, and it was my memoir.
[00:57:19] And basically, if you want to know what it's like to be a CEO who grew up in my roots, who got to the top and navigate a lot of stuff and, and, uh, and was successful, but at the same time had, I call it wolves or, um, uh, voices in my head from all this trauma that was unresolved. That's my book. Uh, we hit number one in Canada, USA.
[00:57:40] A few months after it was released and so I'll be happy if you check that out. Reviews are awesome. This one is the one I mentioned a minute ago. Uh, The Quiet Warrior teaches Jeannie.
[00:57:50] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): And Jeannie's
[00:57:51] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: a, actually a lady who lives in California and that's her younger self. And in here is 10 mental health hacks or skills.
[00:57:59] [00:58:00] And then I've got, I had 12 contributing authors and I wish I'd known you back then.
[00:58:04] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Who we asked to write
[00:58:05] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: their, yeah, we asked them to write their story of mental illness and recovery and their top five hacks. So there's 60 skills in here, but what's really awesome is the, the book is fully illustrated.
[00:58:16] Awesome.
[00:58:17] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): So it's
[00:58:18] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4: very unique. And then the last one, which I have to tell you about. This just dropped in May. It's my first coloring book for children. For me, it's all about the kids. That's so cool. They're all on Amazon. Uh, so create. ca, uh, you can connect with me through that. Uh, there's an email address and, uh, my podcast called the quiet warrior show.
[00:58:39] We live stream it every week. So I'm in studio. So we're on YouTube, rumble. LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook. And then if you go to the at Tom that a YouTube page, there's about 400 videos, but all this, all the videos productions are there. I just, so I'm just so grateful to be on your show. I admire you so much.
[00:58:59] And it's [00:59:00] funny that sometimes I have this imposter syndrome where I think nobody really wants to hear from me. And I, I interview a lot of people, but this is like, Uh, uh, being so, so awesome, so.
[00:59:09] Amelia: Oh, good. I'm so glad you came on, and I'm so just appreciative of, like I said, your vulnerability and being open and would love to have you back sometime, so I hope you have a good rest of your day.
[00:59:22] Bye, everyone. Be well.
[00:59:24] 01 - Tom Dutta 1.4 (2): Bye bye, everybody. Thank you.