Gina Cavalier, the Liberated Healer, joins the Sensitivity Doctors to talk candidly about her journey in healing from suicidal ideation.
In this enlightening discussion, listeners are invited to explore the depths of resilience, healing, and the power of shared experiences. With Gina's unique perspective as a survivor of suicidal ideation this, this episode promises to offer invaluable insights into navigating the complexities of mental health challenges.
Takeaways
FIND HELP : Psychology Today |Dr. Amelia Kelley | Crisis Line
GINA CAVALIER: Website | Podcast | Documentary
Dr. Kelley (03:28.399)
Hello, I'm Dr. Kelly and we are so excited to have you here today to talk to our fabulous guest Gina Cavalier about surviving suicidal ideation, how to support others who are experiencing the same and unpacking this very complex topic.
Jeanne (03:44.36)
And we just like to put in a small disclaimer for this episode, it's definitely not for kids. So just make sure that you listen responsibly. If you feel that you are triggered with this episode, just know that there is help and support networks out there that Dr. Kelly and Gina will give you at the end of this episode. But again, just listen responsibly and this is not meant to diagnose or treat.
Dr. Kelley (04:11.003)
So I am ecstatic to have our guest and my co-author on our forthcoming book this spring, Gina Cavalier. She's a mental health advocate, author, filmmaker, artist, speaker, spiritual teacher, and host of the Liberated Healer podcast, where both of us met her, actually. She has secured two publishing deals with her first book, co-authored with myself. She is also the illustrator of this book. I cannot wait.
Jeanne (04:31.656)
Yep.
Dr. Kelley (04:39.579)
for you to see her gorgeous illustrations, Surviving Suicidal Ideation from Therapy to Spirituality and the Lived Experience coming out in June, 2024. The second book in which she is an author and illustrator is titled Healing Suicidal Ideation, a Handbook for the Living, Volume One. Cavalier is building a mega wellness brand with a base passion for assisting with the worldwide suicide epidemic with positive content.
and a website, a mobile app, a documentary, a nonprofit providing support in suicidal ideation. Cavalier is a media veteran from the entertainment industry. She has been on so many cool projects, Harry Potter, Fantastic Beasts, Wonka, Constantine and more. Cavalier's
Jeanne (05:25.484)
Go Gina!
Dr. Kelley (05:34.715)
where she founded and co-chaired a business group and produced insightful events to sold out crowds of more than 600 people. She is just fabulous and a wealth of information, but a wealth of heart and spirit. So we are so, so grateful to have you here today, Gina.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (05:53.426)
Oh gosh, whoa, got it. Sounds good. Gosh, what a blessing to be with two people that I met on my podcast and it just shows how the world can just kind of collectively get together and just bring amazing people on the same journey together. So I'm excited that you guys came together to do this at City of You Doctors. We need it so much. And yeah, thank you. I'm glad to be here. Thanks.
Dr. Kelley (05:55.191)
Hey.
Dr. Kelley (06:21.983)
You are the ultimate connector here. So we can thank you for all of us sitting here truly, which is it's such an honor. But today, as we were saying, we are talking about suicidal ideation. So we wanted to ask you if we could start by exploring a little deeper into this because there's so many definitions, certain symptoms, and things that really are not easy to understand.
Jeanne (06:24.716)
Yeah.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (06:30.263)
Yes.
Jeanne (06:42.576)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (06:47.147)
And we want to see if we can unpack this a bit to create a foundation for the rest of our conversation.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (06:53.038)
Sure. So, well, this is such a big topic, but some of the symptoms that I would, I always go back to the first thing is that there's a huge sense of disconnection.
It first usually maybe starts with a trauma or a story you're telling yourself But as that trauma builds inside yourself and it's almost like a layered cake You just layer one problem on top of the other one issue off top of the other and add any adjective you want worthlessness You know feeling a love feeling outside of this circle feeling like you don't connect with anybody It just is a big giant pile of things and then all of a sudden there's a disconnect
And that disconnection all of a sudden it feels like you against the world or you against your spirit or you're just almost on this field all by yourself. And once that happened to me, I feel like that's where it becomes dangerous. That's when you fluctuate for the diff. We
listed five different phases of suicidal ideation in our book. That's where you fluctuate between one and five. And five is dangerous. Five is when you're going into action or making a plan. And so when you feel that disconnection, that's when I would say go and really start making a plan for yourself. I mean, that is definitely the time to actually go get the therapy or list out a plan and activate people in your family and things like that.
Dr. Kelley (08:26.255)
So are you saying that, oh, Jean.
Jeanne (08:26.416)
So can I just, yeah, I just want to clarify as something that I'm wondering about. What you're saying is then ideally suicidal ideation is not, you said you get to level five. You're not there yet, right? It's the process of getting there. So you're thinking about it. It's the idea that's forming in your mind. You're visualizing it. And this is what we mean when we talk about suicidal ideation. Okay.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (08:55.598)
Correct.
And everybody has a different reason, a different trauma, a different situation, but I feel like it really does kind of all align almost the same with a lot of people. You know, it's that same process, you know, that all of a sudden that disconnection. Once you do that and you're disconnected from your loved ones, you have talked yourself into that this is better for everyone, that you're actually helping them by not having to, you being a burden anymore.
That that disconnection is that to me that middle ground that's the most dangerous
Dr. Kelley (09:33.095)
And the question I wanted to ask, just to clarify, it's not that someone should wait until stage five to be putting these things into action, but if you have not done so yet by stage five, it is crucial and critical that a safety plan, therapy, breaching out, letting someone know, someone that you feel safe with, that you're experiencing these thoughts and...
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (09:45.334)
Yes.
Dr. Kelley (10:00.291)
disconnects that it's crucial. Am I understanding that?
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (10:02.578)
Yes, absolutely. For a minute, I'd just like to go back away from the person who's suicidal, if that's okay, because I'm a little fired up right now, because, and I have to go with energy, because what I'm, you know, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed or underwhelmed by a response from people who are so afraid to even, you know.
reach out to people that they love and just ask them if they're okay. I want to see where why that is. And I've noticed it a lot lately, kind of doing this work on this book, why are people so afraid? And I'll give you an example. Everybody knows I'm writing this book and I, you know, I have like 8,000 subscribers, most of them friends and family have known for 25 years. I'm on Facebook all the time. And I've had a handful of people reach out to me and say, gosh, I'm really sorry. I didn't know.
Jeanne (10:36.493)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (10:58.318)
And that's wonderful. Thank you so much. You know, just this little thing.
Um, but that's pretty much it. Just a couple of people. And, um, I have a lot of friends. I know a lot of people. I'm very social, you know, I've always have been. And, you know, for, and when I have, say a birthday picture, a party picture with all my girlfriends hanging out, I get like 300 comments on there. Um, you know, you look beautiful. You do did it in there. So I'm kind of like, where's the disconnect? Why have people so afraid to say these little things like, are you okay? Are you safe?
how you doing? It's almost like, you know, if you see someone like a car crash happening, are you going to be the one going over there and offering assistance? Are you just going to walk by? And I think there is this interesting dynamic I'm seeing. Well, people are so overwhelmed with themselves maybe, but they're just walking by. And sometimes just that little, you know, being aware of your tribe or the people around you, just that little
Jeanne (11:50.403)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (11:58.39)
Hey, how are you doing? Is there anything that you need to do? Just a tiny little bit. It's so amazing and so wonderful. And I'm wondering where we lost that. I really feel like we've lost that and that's a conversation I'd love to bring back to the other people that are just kind of out there. And I don't know, maybe you guys can add to that. Why people feel like they can't offer assistance or, you know, available.
Jeanne (12:26.196)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (12:28.035)
or feel like they're afraid to get involved, you know, things like that. I'm always I'm just curious about that.
Jeanne (12:32.671)
Yeah.
Jeanne (12:36.12)
I think maybe from my perspective, I feel like I've experienced the same. But with the additional point of people are always so ready and willing to unload on me. You know, almost as if they see, oh, this is the safe space. This is the person I can kind of unload on. But there's never kind of the complimentary gift to me.
Do you get what I'm saying? Like where I'm asked, how are you doing? Are you okay? And if there is a question of how are you doing, it's more as if they're asking out of some kind of duty to do it, then really caring. And for me, I've really just noticed that people are so consumed with their own lives and purpose and where they need to be and...
They're also so lonely in the type of avenues of help that they can find, that if they do find something like that or say space, you know, that's kind of all they can think of to just unload and be okay themselves. Um, but it's making us, I think, step away from seeing outside of ourselves and what others may also need. That's just my opinion.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (13:49.534)
Yeah. I mean, I had a family member say just a few weeks ago that I love playing the victim. And yeah, and you know me, Dr. Kelly, after a year of what we went through writing this book. I mean, I had the publisher had to say we need more story, Gina. I mean, I was trying to do, you know, I was like,
Dr. Kelley (13:57.763)
They said that to you.
Dr. Kelley (14:01.817)
I do.
Dr. Kelley (14:09.739)
multiple times.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (14:12.714)
I don't want to talk all about myself. How about, you know, and I realized, you know, of course I had the storytelling was gonna, but I didn't, you know, it was something that I want to put out once as much as, you know, as detailed as possible. But I really wanted to work with other people because I feel I'm healed. I want to share maybe what helped me get healed. But I'm now concerned about the other people and concerned about my community and my tribe. And so that was kind of hard for me, but.
you know, to literally, as I was writing, putting this book out, you know, just I love to play the victim here. And thankfully, like I washed it away because I've had my tools that I have implemented. But there is just really rash, like responses that I've seen. And I'm really concerned about going through an election year, what people are gonna be doing to other people.
Um, you know how they comment on social media, how people will just like, if you don't, don't agree with what they were, they are in a certain thing on, on the world or whatever, they're just going to really unload on you. And I just am very concerned about that unloading on other people as well. So that's just a sentiment, you know,
Jeanne (15:25.644)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (15:30.931)
I can definitely attest from a clinical stance on this, kind of seeing what happens in the therapy room and what happens even in training folks to work with those who are experiencing suicidal ideation. I think there's a threefold issue happening here. And the first being the myth and the fear that if we mention something, it makes it bigger.
Jeanne (15:56.533)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kelley (15:56.779)
versus if we, the truth being, if we mention something and we are vulnerable about something, we actually help it to reduce its intense power. And being able to take issues, pull them out from the rug and say, let's look, let's talk, let's be vulnerable together as a human race is huge. It's important, it's imperative, and it should be a huge part of this journey.
of helping others with suicidal ideation. It should be a more common topic. And I even see in the therapy community, there having to be this continued encouragement to therapists, check in with your people, check in with your clients, ask them regularly, are you experiencing suicidal ideation? I can say even as a therapist, it took me time to convince myself the more I talk about it, the better, not the less I talk about it.
the better. It doesn't implant an idea. It doesn't make someone suicidal. If you ask them, are you experiencing suicidal ideation? That's one of the most important pieces. I think after I go through my other layers of this cake, it will be good for us to talk about other myths that there are around suicide. The other piece, and I'm thinking about what you're saying about the likes, and I'm experiencing that too. I'll post something
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (17:03.531)
Thank you.
Dr. Kelley (17:22.743)
about suicide or abuse or different topics we really need to be having open conversations about. And there'll be a little engagement. But then if I post a picture of me and my bestie at the beach, there's so many more people engaged. And I don't know if a little bit of that is maybe the reason sometimes we pick up our phones is to get that dopamine fix, is to get that little boost.
And so if we see something uncomfortable, we don't want to focus on it. Um, but that also doesn't take into account what people very hurtfully said to you about being, what did they say? Needy or dramatic? What, what, what was that again?
Jeanne (18:09.169)
Oh wow.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (18:09.99)
victim. My cousin said that I like to play the victim.
Dr. Kelley (18:14.043)
Play the victim. Okay. I have a huge issue when someone says that person is just trying to get attention. Okay. Great. If the person needs, I mean, it would be like if I sliced my foot on a nail and I'm saying, help, I need a band-aid and they're like, you're just trying to get attention.
Jeanne (18:16.259)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (18:26.006)
Really?
Jeanne (18:39.66)
Awesome.
Dr. Kelley (18:39.783)
No, I'm hurt. I need help. I need someone to support me and get me a band-aid. There's no reason why someone who is experiencing these feelings and these thoughts as a result of, as you so eloquently put, whether it be mental health issues, trauma, medical health issues, socioeconomic issues. We saw in our research that there is a huge issue in Canada where
Jeanne (18:42.944)
Hmm
Dr. Kelley (19:07.547)
People are not being given the support they need for disability and they're becoming medically invisible and they don't have the finances to live. And so they are applying for assisted suicide because they don't have other options. These are not people who want to die. Yes, these are not people who want to die. These are people who want to live a supported life. And so to say, now I think I'm fired up. I got goosebumps.
Jeanne (19:25.703)
Oh wow.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (19:27.842)
Yes.
Dr. Kelley (19:36.979)
Now to say that someone's asking for attention, what is wrong with that? Why can't we ask for someone to notice?
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (19:49.589)
I'm getting chilled.
Jeanne (19:52.184)
That's so incredible that you just said that because it's actually opened a door for me because when I tried to take my life, I didn't have suicidal ideation. I was just in a very bad space. A second trauma unlocked the past and I was in the hospital and I just felt that I needed to go. It was a very sudden thing for me.
encountered a lot of shame of that afterwards, a lot of people being very angry with me. My therapist, for example, told me she will never work with me again if I ever attempt something like that. I was like 20 years old, so I really didn't know where to go or who to talk to. And I turned to self-harm because I didn't know what else to do with this pain. I didn't know what to do or where to go or ask for help. And my uncle had also told me like...
Listen, why are you seeking attention like this? What do you think you're trying to achieve by, he still said something about taking a blunt knife and trying to saw your wrist. That was like his words to me. It was like, you need to get your, your shit together and ask your mom for, you know, apologize to her for what you've put her through and, you know, get on the right path. Sorry. I can, I can cut that out.
Dr. Kelley (21:18.735)
Thank you.
Jeanne (21:18.836)
Um, I'll just say that again. Yeah. So he just said that I need to apologize to my mom for what I put her through and get on the right path. And I had never up until this day thought about it the way that you just put it. What's wrong with. What's wrong with the fact that you need attention, especially then, you know, I didn't have the emotional capabilities that I have now.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (21:41.356)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kelley (21:42.043)
I'm sorry you went through that. I'm learning so much about your story and our work together. So, and I appreciate how open you are with sharing that with the people listening.
Jeanne (21:44.477)
It's okay.
Jeanne (21:49.272)
I'm just.
Jeanne (21:53.324)
Sorry, I'm just going to turn that speaker off because it may bother us again. Let me just do that quickly.
Dr. Kelley (21:57.547)
Okay. Yep.
I think we're getting some good ideas of what we're going to chat about today.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (22:04.862)
Yeah, and I got Darcy's notes, so that was really good.
Dr. Kelley (22:08.635)
She's the bomb. Yeah, she's amazing. You're amazing too, but we're talking about our publicist that we're going to work with. No, but I was, no, that's okay. I was just saying that I appreciate that you are willing to share that with our listeners because it should be more of an open conversation and being able to be vulnerable like that, I hope makes someone else feel like, okay, it's okay for me to talk about this stuff too.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (22:12.474)
Mmm.
Jeanne (22:16.4)
Oh yeah, no, that's good. Sorry. It's.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (22:18.623)
I'm just...
Dr. Kelley (22:38.037)
both of you honestly.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (22:39.958)
And you know, I like the fact that you're both doctors. Hello. I mean...
you know, education was not something in my path because I've been on my own since I was 14 and I had to work and survive. And I loved school. I wanted to be, I wanted to go to college so bad, so bad, but I didn't have finances the time I had it, you know? And so, you know, and I have this kind of bubbly personality and then going into work, people would just automatically assume I was dingy or dumb or, you know, Gina could be a salesperson and she's an account executive, you know? And
always kind of bringing me down intellectually. And for a long time, I took that as my place in life. And then finally I said, no, I really want to be considered. I love learning and this whole journey of getting a publishing deal. I mean, yeah, it's...
always a great thing to have someone validate that your work is good enough to stand out enough to do that.
But to me, it's a goal, like a whole life-changing goal to be a published author, to have that recognition that my words mean something. And yes, I'm not perfect in grammar, and I'm not, you know, my delivery isn't this and that, but we're not meant to be perfect. And that's why we have people that are editors that are great at that. So taking that pressure off being, you know, 100% everything good all the time,
Jeanne (23:58.238)
Hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (24:15.674)
is important for us to know that we don't have to put all that pressure on ourselves, you know, focus on what we love and what we're good at that we want that we want to do, not how others have put on to us say, you need to do that. I was going into a direction that everybody wanted me to go into the cute blonde X, you know, um, you don't read books, literally, like you're not educated. You're so cute, though. You got a great personality, you know,
Dr. Kelley (24:20.121)
Mm-hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (24:45.488)
that you bring down yourself because you don't feel authentic, you don't feel included, you don't, and now you start to believe that story and you think that is all you have and that's all you can ever be. And that this thing that you really are like passionate about with your whole heart is so unreachable because everybody has told you that that's not you.
Jeanne (24:48.966)
Mmm.
Dr. Kelley (24:53.402)
Hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (25:08.222)
and to climb up that mountain and to go up to that mountain and say, no, I am grabbing that ring. I am going to do that. I mean, people are blown away because they're, they're just like, wow, like you actually, when you say you're going to do something, you actually did it. And I went fearlessly to publishers.
Dr. Kelley (25:08.336)
Hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (25:27.358)
fearlessly, you know, and just said, please, you know, this is me. Do you like it or not? You know, and how to wash away all those things that other people just kind of labeled on the labels. I'm just a huge non fan of labels at all. You know, even if it's politics or whatever, once you add a label, you are in that box.
Jeanne (25:45.056)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (25:49.998)
keep adding another label, keep adding another label, keep at, and then all of a sudden you're limited to that within which yourself. But when you have limits, you can't go.
Jeanne (26:01.868)
Hmm
Dr. Kelley (26:02.543)
Can I ask you something about that very honest and raw expression of how those around you impact that internal dialogue and what you believe about the importance of a tribe and those that you surround yourself for anyone listening who maybe is in a family system or a social system where they don't feel like they can normalize and talk about.
their ideation or their struggle. How do you suggest someone let go of that dialogue that others provide to them and find a tribe that supports them?
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (26:43.89)
It has to start with self first. Because you're the only one that's with you 24 seven. You're the only one that knows. You're the only one that knows what is going on. You're the only one that knows what's really going on. I created almost the second self, like my own best friend. And sometimes that best friend was my child version of me. And sometimes it was the adult version of me.
Jeanne (26:51.492)
Oh, thank you. Such an awesome way to start that answer.
Dr. Kelley (26:53.017)
Hehehehehehehe
Hehehe
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (27:11.386)
And I put that person sometimes outside of myself, you know, and I would have a dialogue with them. And I would say, is this good for me? And they'd say, no, you know, and I created this really interesting dialogue. And sometimes I would just have that second self just come over and hug me.
Um, one of the biggest, um, healing moments I had personally had was when I started to really do this. Um, and I was working, I worked, I was working with an audio book from Susan Anderson about abandonment and grief. And I've had her on my show twice. And I would visualize this little girl version of myself and those moments where I kind of learned those patterns of being unworthiness and maybe I was molested and all the different like moments I had. And I would go to that little girl and I would sit in bed with her.
and I would literally just hug her and rock her. And I just felt such a healing from that and just looking in my smaller version's eyes and being like, you're gonna be okay. You know, this is actually gaining strength and wisdom and knowledge that because this happened to, didn't happen to you, it happened for you. So take that for you and take that lesson. And it doesn't mean you have to bring all, and take it into the next phase
you want you can change your life today make the life that you prefer now by these lessons and um
I love, I use that all the time. It's really weird. I hope it's, you could tell me doctors, if it's like a crazy one, but the second self, I use it all the time. In the morning, I always wake up and I say, hey, Gina, good morning. We've got three interviews today. Yeah, we're gonna raise up the energy. And then at night, I have a bath or I have my yoga or whatever I do.
Dr. Kelley (28:45.903)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (28:55.283)
Heh heh.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (29:03.106)
kind of separate myself and I say, I didn't get as much done as I wanted, but what I did was quality and I put my heart into it. I do like the self love thing. And then whenever life comes in, which it always does, there's such a, like a calming sense because I'm starting with love for myself. So when someone wants to come in with anything, I'm like, it's okay, peace and calm. What do we have to talk about? What's going on?
Dr. Kelley (29:14.148)
Hmm
Jeanne (29:23.614)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (29:32.842)
And that's been a huge, just having that, because we're always gonna have conflict in our life. We're always gonna have obstacles. They're not going away for anybody ever. So learning how to deal, yeah.
Jeanne (29:40.148)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kelley (29:40.571)
true.
Jeanne (29:45.28)
Do you guys know... Sir, do you know Marisa Pier?
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (29:50.372)
Oh yeah, I've heard of her.
Dr. Kelley (29:51.823)
I have to write that one down.
Jeanne (29:54.268)
She's, she's a, she's very famous psychiatrist. I believe she works on a lot of TV shows, like the biggest loser. I think she's worked on that, but she works with a lot of celebrities and royals, um, in terms of getting themselves in a better space and how you achieve. And all of that. And she had an exercise very similar to what you said, Gina, that helped me a lot, and it was that you visualize the.
the space where you had the trauma like the home you grew up in and everything, smell it, see it, taste it. And imagine yourself as the...
kind of positive, confident version of you now. And you put yourself in that space and you walk in and you pick up the child and you take the child with you. And you imagine kind of driving up to your driveway of where you live now and getting out and taking that child into your new home and your safe space with you. And like, it's okay, we got out. We got out. Like I came to get you, I acknowledge you, I see you. I...
I'm sorry for what you went through, but you're safe now. Um, and it's very similar to, to what you were saying as well.
Dr. Kelley (31:06.54)
I love that.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (31:07.746)
So Dr. Kelly, what do you think about that? I'm gonna ask you. Because it's become like a really hot habit of mine now. I mean, I almost always have the second self and it's almost, it feels partially spiritual like my higher self, but also feels like a healthier version of my mind that kind of goes, uh-uh, you don't, that.
Dr. Kelley (31:11.195)
Hehehe
Dr. Kelley (31:22.587)
Mm-hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (31:29.238)
don't take that with you. You didn't, you don't, don't bring that with you. No, today that's, we're not going down that road. And it's, and I go, oh, okay. And I snap out of it. It's something I developed from all the healing work we've done through the years, but it is very constant. I feel like it's just, it's like my, it's almost like my lighthouse is always bringing me back to center constantly. And it's really something I've noticed just in the last
Dr. Kelley (31:52.279)
Mm-hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (31:59.532)
It's just stable forces. It's almost like my superhero that is always keeping me You know on axis, so I'm wondering
Dr. Kelley (32:03.427)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (32:11.371)
Oh, I think it makes a lot of sense and shows how much work you've done because I know from our writing together that you had a therapist who used internal family systems. And this feels and sounds a lot like parts work where we, based on Richard Schwartz work, where you see that we are a conglomerate of parts that make up a whole system, that we are not just one unified self.
Jeanne (32:11.84)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (32:40.855)
and that within that we've got this self-energy that I love Tom Holmes and his parts workbook had spoken about it as like a living room where all the parts come in to discuss and figure out how we want to approach different things in life. So it sounds to me like you're doing a really fantastic job at connecting with your self-energy. A lot of people don't know how to connect with the self-energy.
Dr. Kelley (33:10.903)
mindfulness or meditation and then at that point where they feel the most relaxed, the most self compassionate and the most connected to their body, that's where the self exists. That's where the self lives. And so when you are in the throes of suicidal ideation, despair, suffering for whatever reason, it is really difficult to find that part and connect with that part. And that's why
whether it be picking up our book, which we do have plenty of exercises where we guide them through meditations and journal prompts and psychoeducation on this, or finding a therapist who is versed in parts work. Or it doesn't have to just be parts work. There are flavors of parts work that come from Buddhism, for instance, or other different spiritual practices. So...
If you're not wanting to go find a therapist, you might find a spiritual leader or teacher or even a podcast or someone that you're interested in, a community. It makes a lot of sense because what happens when we over personify our struggles is very dangerous and harmful. Instead of I am trauma, I am broken, I am depressed, I am anxious, I am the big AM.
Jeanne (34:08.847)
and
Dr. Kelley (34:33.271)
Suicidal, it is I am experiencing, I am witnessing, I am having, not I am. So what you're doing is really powerful and the way you're using it too reminds me of Kristin Neff's self-compassion work and speaking to yourself like a friend because when you are calling yourself a burden, not you but someone who is in the throes of suicidal ideation right now,
Jeanne (34:54.145)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (35:02.111)
If you are calling yourself a burden, that is most likely not a way you would speak to someone else. And so we're moving yourself from this enmeshed self and sitting with, whether it be the child or the self-energy, however you visualize it. I have clients who have... Actually I do some... I would love to have Bloom, my shamanic teacher on here sometime. She's amazing and she does these visualizations.
and my self-energy, this sounds really odd, is like this older Native American man. I see him sometimes in my guided meditations and I don't know what that's about. We can unpack that sometime. But whatever it is for you, it allows you to have more objectivity.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (35:54.882)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kelley (35:56.391)
of your experience. So I think that's beautiful that you're doing that. And I appreciate you sharing that because one of the things I wanted to ask you today was if you could identify a few of your most important personal practices that have led you out of the depths of suicidal ideation into healing, what would they be? And I'm hearing you say the self-energy, the witnessing of that, the self-love and self-compassionate talk.
surrounding yourself with a tribe that supports you and doesn't diminish you, is there anything else that comes to mind that you really would love listeners to know?
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (36:33.814)
Well, if you start this work, and it is work, and it takes practice, and it's not gonna be an overnight thing. You have to do full commitment to yourself, 100%. It might be, everybody has a different path, but no matter what, just even making that commitment to yourself, that's already the first step, so it doesn't matter how long it takes. And that there's so many things that were meant for you
you can that you're going to find little golden nuggets, even in the worst things that had to happen. You're going to find these golden nuggets of healing and love and compassion for maybe even the other people that kind of stepped on you or hurt you. And there's when you start to lighten the load and move into love and compassion at that level, it is, it is sort of a, it does feel
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (37:33.828)
And it's a little by little, but you get to a point where you almost feel like you're floating. Because the heaviness just falls away. Because like energy collects like energy, you know. So if you're swirling around in the muck, everything around you is going to feel like muck. So as soon as you start to lighten up that pathway, the dark just can't even hold on anymore. The clouds just
Jeanne (37:46.52)
Hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (38:01.806)
And for me, I wanted to have a life purpose and I believe a lot of people do too. They're like, what am I, how am I going to leave this world? I came here for a reason and I have a life purpose. And for me, I was already in my fifties and I'm just starting to get healed. And a lot of people, you know, in my area, they consider that, you know, you're halfway dead or something. And I'm like, oh shit, you know, I better get to my life purpose pretty soon here. You know?
Dr. Kelley (38:23.828)
Hehehe
Jeanne (38:24.745)
Thank you.
Dr. Kelley (38:27.919)
Hehehehe
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (38:30.946)
But I just.
But you know, we have that thing, we want to leave something behind that we're connected to. And sometimes I feel like that's where people fall into desperation into alcoholism or drug abuse, because they feel like they're never going to get there. Oh, why even bother? It's almost like a video game. Oh, just turn it off, you know, hit game over. But it doesn't matter how old you are. It's that it's start right now today. And I've seen people that have been started acting in their
Jeanne (38:49.509)
Hmm
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (39:03.792)
70s and gotten a one award. I mean if that was your passion go for it doesn't matter there is no end but the life purpose thing was where I had my final huge healing and it was all hidden in my healing that you know I did not know I would become a spiritual teacher I did not know that I would be sharing this with the world that
Dr. Kelley (39:20.749)
Mmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (39:28.51)
My pain was actually going to be my life purpose. Who would have thought that at that time? Who would have thought?
Dr. Kelley (39:34.563)
Yes, it's like the ultimate integration of a trauma. I mean, just creating purpose from that.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (39:42.459)
And now I'm in service to humanity and I wake up completely purposeful. That changes my perspective on a daily basis. I got a purpose. I have people to help, period. It's not surrounded by money, which one day I hope it will be, a little bit to keep me going.
Jeanne (39:50.529)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kelley (39:53.328)
Hmm.
Dr. Kelley (39:58.705)
Yeah
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (40:01.814)
Um, but just keeping that high vibration, um, you know, roll out as much positive energy content I can, don't contribute in negative conversations online. And it's hard because you'll see all this dichotomy and, and pain and you want to just say, Oh, you're doing that. Can't believe that you said that. I believe, I believe when there's a righteousness, you know, that we have sometimes, you know, I just say, you don't know what that person's going through. You're going to create more.
Jeanne (40:17.74)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (40:31.766)
Just do you want to do that? And the most often I say no, oh no, I don't have to comment on that and I move on. But really encompassing your every move towards love and positivity. Because if you go online and start commenting on a bunch of things, on one thing, especially about elections, you're gonna go to bed, you're carrying that energy with you. You're gonna, even you're watching TV and you're thinking, you're zoning out, you're gonna be thinking about those text messages or that.
Jeanne (40:54.852)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (41:00.262)
social media that you put out. I can't believe they said that. That's not good for you. Everything you do positive.
Dr. Kelley (41:05.528)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kelley (41:10.095)
Something that you said, I think, and this could be a whole episode in itself, but you were saying letting go of those negative vibrations. And it reminds me of some of the research and science out there about the power of forgiveness and what it does in a positive way to the person who is forgiving. Do you feel like that's been part of your healing journey?
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (41:34.13)
It's kind of the last part because when someone has trauma and you ask them to forgive them, they're going to get mad. They're going to get pissed. They're just going to be like, no, don't need you. Thank you very much. I'm not there. That I can't forgive that.
Jeanne (41:40.489)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (41:49.002)
So forgiveness is kind of one of the last things that does come in. But when it comes in, it's glorious and it does, uh, it released, it frees you. It liberates you. And that is the whole purpose of my podcast, Deliberated Healer is to liberate yourself through whatever you need to be free of free yourself from. The, the storylines of things that happen to you. And then the forgiveness will come in. It is kind of the.
the last little bit. And you might not even get a response even if you, some people might have passed on that you have to forgive. Some people are still around that you have to forgive or even ask for forgiveness. And you have to be kind of in a healthier state because you need to be able to detach from the expectation of what their reaction is going to be.
Dr. Kelley (42:43.492)
Definitely.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (42:43.658)
And you need to be in a healed space for that. So I would not suggest doing that until you feel really a bit more grounded and secure. Because if you just write someone said, I was a jerk and I shouldn't have done X, and they come back and unload on you more, and you're not at a healed state yet where you have tools in place, you could get yourself into another phase that's unfavorable.
Jeanne (42:43.71)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (43:04.027)
Mm-hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (43:11.178)
And I'll just go through some of my other things that I've enacted that I do on a daily basis. I do have like a low humming anxiousness still. And so the first thing I do is I bought an iPod home and I just tell it.
first thing I wake up, put on meditation or spa music, really low in the background, almost all through the day. And I don't realize it is honestly keeping me high vibration all the time and mellow. At night when I sleep, I put on the ocean sounds, even though I live close to the ocean, but just that whooshing sound, because the silence made me feel more alone.
Jeanne (43:39.884)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (43:52.434)
So I've added that in because I have to recognize where my wounds are. I feel alone and I don't want to be alone, but I am alone. I'm not in a partnership right now. I so I bring my dogs in and I put sound around and just that sound, that auditory just really helps me kind of.
Dr. Kelley (43:52.579)
Hmm
Jeanne (43:52.725)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (44:08.602)
I'm not alone. It's really interesting. And then I start my meditation practices and connecting with my higher self My grounding practices that are all in our book Connecting to the earth and releasing anything I might have picked up from people and then also Thanking the people I think everybody at the end of the day whoever I engaged with good or bad Every single person every if I got in a fight with someone or argue I thank them for the lesson that I'm the awareness of the dichotomy that I'm learning
Dr. Kelley (44:26.991)
Gratitude mindset. I love that.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (44:38.596)
different skills from and the opportunity. So I, you know, it's just being grateful for everything that happens every day.
Jeanne (44:40.901)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (44:48.151)
I love that. And, you know, interestingly, my brain always goes to the science of something. I love that you're using sound because sound is highly regulating for our nervous system and our vagus nerve. Something I noticed with many of my trauma clients is that they rely on TV a lot to do what sound is doing for you. There's nothing wrong with TV. I love a good Netflix show. But there is, I just want to caution.
There are issues sometimes, especially with having it on at night to assist in sleep. It can disrupt your sleep. There's light issues with it. And I have found some of my depressed clients find they feel more depressed when they have the TV on all day. We should probably find a scientist to break this down for us for an episode. But sound is hugely powerful. The Safe and Sound Protocol, which is a listening therapy I offer at my practice, is all based
prosodic sound and how it can assist you and the ocean waves that you're saying I would imagine Probably have some aspects of white noise to them or even green noise I believe when I look at the research on it, these are things that can help soothe your nervous system And you know what I love about what you highlighted today Gina is that? Most of what you're saying other than being careful about the tribe Being careful about the media that you take in
A lot of it's very self-empowered and self-directed. So even if your circumstance is horribly stressful or you have experienced really traumatizing relationships, you still are deeply empowered to get the support you need in order to get what you deserve to overcome your suicidal ideation and experience a beautiful life.
And also, I hope those listening who maybe haven't experienced it themselves gain a greater understanding of how complex it is for the person who experiences these thoughts. And so I wanted to ask you, gosh, I feel like we could talk about this for a whole another episode and maybe we will. But I wanted to ask you if you wanted to maybe unpack some of the positive vibrations you want to put out into the world that
Jeanne (46:40.517)
Hmm.
Jeanne (46:53.46)
Mm.
Jeanne (46:59.928)
Thank you.
Dr. Kelley (47:08.951)
You want people to know about resources that they can look into if they're experiencing this or if they know someone that they love who are experiencing this that they're supporting.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (47:19.87)
Yes, absolutely. Well, we're going to have a list of resources in our book. And everybody's.
Dr. Kelley (47:26.231)
A long one.
Jeanne (47:28.344)
Ha ha ha.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (47:31.414)
journey is so unique and different. So you really have to literally journal or write it down and write down the things that communicate with yourself. Some people are very physical, they need physical activity. Some people might need mind calmness. Some people need to be around more people. Only like, again, only you know what you need. Really have a list of, and it could be anything. I like tennis. I like to walk around the block. I want to ride, I like to ride my bike. I like to go to the ocean.
animals I like to x y and z you have this list that is almost like your go-to list for example when I was in one of my heaviest suicidal idea Stage I was ready to go. I was just ready. I was out of here I was like nothing keep me here, and it wasn't even I just didn't feel connected to anybody or anything I didn't feel like a belong here. I wasn't even depressed. It was weird. I just didn't belong here
Jeanne (48:22.679)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (48:23.355)
Hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (48:25.13)
I didn't feel like anybody saw me. I didn't feel love from anybody. I wouldn't volunteer to animal shelter because animals to me like always spoke to me deeply. And within about a month of picking up poop and walking dogs, and people were like, gosh, no, you've, you know, it's funny because.
Jeanne (48:40.382)
I'm sorry.
Dr. Kelley (48:44.188)
The cure to suicide. Poop.
Jeanne (48:46.328)
Thank you.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (48:48.446)
You know, yeah, I was a salesperson. I've closed big deals, like, you know, million dollar deals and I'm sitting there going, I'm picking up poop. But that connection of looking at these animals' eyes that needed somebody and something that had nothing got me out of my head and out of myself into this little creature and into, and sometimes, so that's again, and that I just fell in love with them and then I started falling back in love with myself.
Jeanne (48:49.559)
Yeah.
Jeanne (49:06.576)
Yeah.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (49:16.531)
Whether that's the nature or whatever you have to do, write that list. I do think people have kind of an aversion to therapists sometimes or especially men because they've been taught
you know, that submitting X, Y, and Z, and that you can't handle it on your own, and things like that. Oh my gosh, really? These people went to school. They are understanding. And that was so helpful for me, because my therapist would say, I'd say, am I a narcissist? No. Am I bipolar? You know, and he's like, no, you know, and actually getting the confirmation that I had, or if I did have something, well, but here, we're gonna work on that.
Jeanne (49:32.962)
Hmm.
Jeanne (49:46.476)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (49:46.767)
Yeah.
Jeanne (49:49.208)
Mwah!
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (49:56.398)
It helped me go intellectualize what was happening to me. So I do encourage some therapy if that is your thing, but add it to your workbook of things that you need. And it could be energy healing. It could be meditation class. It could be stretching. It could be yoga.
Jeanne (50:06.744)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (50:15.138)
Just make your own pack of things that resonate with you on a constant basis And then there's apps that are really great Again, you know like aura that have meditations in them and again The and building community is what I'm working on right now which I
I have a nonprofit we're starting, Suicidal Ideation Anonymous. And it's because I watched how well AA did for a lot of people. And that's from the 50s. And that's become a norm. And it's helped how many people, right? And then I was thinking, well, anything that... Suicide ideation probably is the one thing that needs to be anonymous, you know? And can break that taboo. So we're trying to raise some funding, government funding for that.
Jeanne (50:50.856)
Mm-hmm.
Jeanne (50:59.672)
Mm-hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (51:06.93)
you know there's a lot of different resources but I am concerned about how much money is going towards supposedly a bunch of resources I'm not seeing a lot of them I mean billions of dollars I'm tracking through the documentary I'm trying to start
Dr. Kelley (51:18.356)
Mm-hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (51:21.622)
And I'm raising funding for that. I have the whole team in place a director everybody But there is a lot of money that's coming from different places But we're not seeing a lot of product and we want we need to we need to really say where is these programs these mental health? Programs that are helping that are really designed with this. I had a search for safety plans. I mean they should be everywhere
Dr. Kelley (51:38.636)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kelley (51:45.741)
Mm-hmm.
Jeanne (51:46.68)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (51:46.874)
There needs to be more products. There needs to just be more and more and more. And that's why we create, partially created the book, but we need a lot more. And people have a lot of fear because they're afraid people are gonna force them on medication, they're gonna put them away or anything like that. So figuring that out a little bit is gonna be a giant task, but this is why we started. We have to start somewhere.
Jeanne (51:54.663)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (52:11.167)
Agreed, absolutely. And if you think about the, like you were saying, where are we going to find these resources? Where are we going to find the support? Normalizing, talking about it more, understanding the myths and taboos is so crucial. And I would love to unpack that in the future with you, because I think that would be such a great segue from your personal journey of healing.
Jeanne (52:11.246)
Hmm
Dr. Kelley (52:39.995)
and how we can all become literate in suicide, truly.
Jeanne (52:45.316)
Yeah.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (52:46.55)
It would be great. Yeah, we don't have to hide in the shadows anymore. But some people are, there's reason to be fearful because who knows, you know, so we need to, yeah. That's a huge task.
Jeanne (52:59.885)
So for our audience and listeners, for example, if I was listening to this, I understand there is help out there, probably go and see your therapist. But how do I practically do that? Is there a support line I call? Do I go see my GP and get a reference to a therapist? What do I do to help myself?
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (53:19.358)
Well, I think on the therapeutic side, you know, Amelia can probably add to how to do that.
Dr. Kelley (53:27.599)
Well, I mean, it really depends. There's so many wonderful resources. But Psychology Today has a fabulous directory. I sometimes joke you can shop for a therapist because you can look at our profiles and our photos and all of that. But contacting your, if you're blessed to have insurance, I know that's a convoluted topic in our country, but contacting your insurance company, they will have a list of people who are in network for you.
Jeanne (53:34.092)
Mm-hmm.
Jeanne (53:39.038)
Oh, awesome.
Dr. Kelley (53:54.959)
And you can also contact many of the resources that we're going to be sharing. You're going to have partnered therapists who are part of this and who are geared towards this topic. And, you know, I kind of want to impart this one last thought about therapy. Yes, there is a huge cultural shift that continues to happen and needs to happen. I think there was a big spike in the realization that therapy should be normalized and
universal through COVID and everything that's happened in our world. But I was speaking to someone, I won't say who it was the other day about a struggle that they're having. This was not a client. And they were unpacking and unloading with me almost as if I was their therapist. And I lovingly, I genuinely lovingly want them to go to therapy. They need a therapist. They need not have a therapist to become their outside source for a therapist they don't have, if that makes sense.
And so I said to them, you know, I've said this before, I'm gonna go back to it, but everyone deserves therapy. Not everyone needs, not everyone should have, everyone deserves. And honestly, I think for some it is a luxury, it's hard to find therapists, as we're saying. And so if you are really struggling to find one, honestly, feel free to reach out to me through my...
Jeanne (54:52.87)
Mm-hmm.
Jeanne (55:01.149)
Mm.
Dr. Kelley (55:20.591)
direct message in Instagram, I will try to help you find one, honestly. But I also want to put the caveat that I cannot work with people across state lines. I always feel bad when someone reaches out to me and I'm like, I can't, I'm sorry, but I will really try to help direct you in the right direction. So Gina, I want to just thank you so much for being here today. I definitely would love to sit down and talk with you more about this. I am...
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (55:29.644)
Thank you.
Jeanne (55:30.264)
Yeah.
Dr. Kelley (55:46.675)
over the moon excited about what this journey is going to look like as our book releases and we get to work with the fabulous collective of people. And the Swedenborg Foundation that we haven't even mentioned who has taken this book and helped it fly. So in the meantime, where can people find you and learn a little bit more about what you have going on and your offerings?
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (56:02.88)
Oh god.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (56:12.843)
So it's www. and also a YouTube channel with the same and Instagram and Facebook and all those things as well. You will see on my website that I am starting a documentary, unpacking even the history of suicide because I found that as we became more modern, as we became more wealthy, as we became...
We have more medication and more depression. And why did that happen? And it's a worldwide epidemic. And every culture has a little bit of a different thing too. Japan has a different reasoning for suicidal, their suicides and things like that. So I think that's very interesting. And then I have, like I said, the Suicide Ideation Anonymous, a nonprofit that I'm trying to get funding for. I actually have an app that I have a full business plan on
Jeanne (56:49.048)
Mm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (57:05.22)
mental wellness and I'm raising three million dollars for that and building a team right now and we can use really cool there's really cool technology that the government has
that they've been using for a long time to train their pilots and things like that. But if we can put it in an app, we can make it really easily. People who are really depressed and that have very little cognitive skills can get help really fast, all in one place. So the easier, we have brilliant people in this world, the easier we can come together to build these products that really are helping our tribe and our people and our loved ones make it easier.
Jeanne (57:27.83)
Hmm
Dr. Kelley (57:34.135)
Mm-hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (57:47.552)
you might not want to read, you don't know where to go. I'm also a big fan of some of the lower, to the smaller projects like the Jed Projects, the smaller communities that help with suicide prevention and sometimes the national prevention lines are so big and overwhelming. And there's ones in every county or every city that you can look into, little smaller community based, you know, places that you can go to.
Jeanne (57:50.52)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kelley (58:05.743)
Hmm.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (58:17.712)
I believe in local is just the way to go. Really staying local. Sometimes when you try to do these national hotlines, it's overwhelming. Go into your community. There's little things if you need help and support there. But deli leave me messaging at deli I will get back to you as soon as I can. And yeah, there you go.
Jeanne (58:39.119)
Can I just ask, are you able to divulge the title of your book yet?
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (58:44.042)
Yes, surviving suicidal ideation from therapy to spirituality and the lived experience.
Jeanne (58:46.433)
Can you tell us?
Dr. Kelley (58:54.189)
all the things.
Jeanne (58:54.813)
When will it be launching?
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (58:56.622)
June 26th, it's already available pre-sale on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. So you can get it right now. It'll come right to your door on that. And it's gonna be a workbook. It's gonna be like a nice chunky size. It's gonna have areas to write notes in and take all kinds of different quizzes and meditations. It's gonna be, we're really excited. Yeah.
Jeanne (59:01.958)
Wonderful.
Jeanne (59:18.844)
Awesome. Cool.
Dr. Kelley (59:22.159)
Well, thank you so much for coming today, Gina. And I really hope to sit down with you again and unpack this very complex topic more. And to our listeners, thank you for listening. And if at any point you need any help, please go ahead and go to the resources that we've shared in the links on this episode and have a good one, everyone. Bye.
Gina Cavalier - The Liberated Healer, Author (59:42.378)
Bye. Take care.