Drs. Amelia Kelley and Jeanne candidly explore the notion of being a "supermom" and the inherent challenges it brings.
Drawing from their personal experiences, the hosts navigate the delicate balance between work and family life. They debunk the myth of perfection, emphasizing that just being a mom is more than enough. The conversation delves into the importance of seeking support, dismantling the myth of balance, and setting meaningful boundaries.
Chapters:
Dr. Jeanne
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Sensitivity Doctors. We're talking about supermoms today. Are you a supermom? Would you love to be a supermom and you feel like you just can't get that balance right? This is the episode for you. Stay tuned.
Okay, you can introduce yourself.
Dr. Amelia Kelley
Hello, I'm Dr. Amelia Kelly. I am a trauma-informed therapist, author, and podcaster who loves to share knowledge about anything related to mental health, empowerment, overcoming trauma, and high sensitivity, and I cannot wait to unpack this episode with you today.
Dr. Jeanne
Hi, I'm Dr. Jeanne, the founder and CEO of Figgi Life and Beauty. We specialize in gentle skincare for sensitive souls like me, and I am an anxious overachiever with panic disorder. So this episode is perfect for me. So, well, that's true. So, well, just to set the baseline, we're both moms, right? So I have a six-year-old little girl and you have two kids.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (01:40.76)
Mm-hmm. Heh-heh-heh-heh. Overachieving at supermomming. Heh-heh-heh. Ahem.
Yes. Yep. Yes. Three, I have to think because one is about to turn four. So three and eight are their ages. Boy and girl.
Dr. Jeanne (01:58.681)
Three and eight, okay, okay. Yeah, I've definitely felt the super mom challenges sometimes, especially because I've always been super career driven, so I work crazy hours when my baby was born. I had a C-section and I had three weeks maternity leave and I was back on a plane traveling all over Africa. Yeah, and she used to travel with me. From the minute she was born, she's a wonderful traveler. She's amazing. She...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:19.894)
What?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:27.622)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Dr. Jeanne (02:28.409)
but she's used to that, you see. But there are so many elements to this. I mean, I just had the craziest night with my little girl. She didn't sleep at all. We have these, this time of year, there's these little small worms that grow in the trees, many of the trees here in Portugal, and they cause really bad allergic reactions. Like you've got to go to the doctor and get cortisol.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:42.094)
Oh no.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:56.998)
Oh wow, like if you get bit or something?
Dr. Jeanne (02:57.249)
cortisone injections. No, it's actually just if you are in contact at all with the little tiny hairs. So if you step on them by accident and that comes into the house, you'll have a reaction. If you stand over it and the wind blows and some of those tiny hairs, it's crazy. Yes, yes, yes. No, yeah, it's true. So I think she picked that up somewhere.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:05.956)
Mmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:10.743)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:15.67)
So it's this time of year. I'm going to not comment this time of year ever.
Dr. Jeanne (03:25.713)
and her skin has just been scratchy and achy. And then I got the call that she had a tummy ache this afternoon and she's at a summer camp she doesn't wanna be at and you feel so guilty because you're trying to work and you wanna be a good mom. And so this is the perfect episode. And we have some questions from our audience this time.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:25.986)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:29.483)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:40.983)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:44.481)
Hehehehe
I do, I do. Yes, I fielded the topic out and boy, oh boy, the responses. But I definitely want to, if you don't mind, say something about this Supermom identity or topic. In a way, I hope that through this conversation, we can almost obliterate the idea that the Supermom even has to exist or does exist.
Dr. Jeanne (04:01.412)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (04:10.927)
Mm.
Dr. Jeanne (04:14.762)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (04:16.706)
and be able to realize that at the end of the day, just mom is enough. Let me ask you listeners, do you hear the birds in the back? Should I close my window?
Dr. Jeanne (04:26.561)
Yes!
Dr. Jeanne (04:31.977)
I think I think it makes a nice soundtrack for our listeners. I'm sure they won't mind
Dr. Amelia Kelley (04:35.599)
Okay. I haven't cracked the window crack just to let air into the studio. So yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (04:40.697)
Oh, that's okay. Fresh air. Yeah. Yeah, I agree to obliterate this whole, I have so many opinions on this and I'm sure we can share how we navigate those because you're a mom yourself, you're a career woman as well. And there definitely are some things that come up, but I think that I've learned to navigate it a lot better in the past couple of years.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (04:50.003)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (04:53.803)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (04:57.902)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:05.772)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:10.474)
Hold on. I'm going to pause you. This that bird will not stop. Let me we'll just we'll just do. Yeah, it sounds like an alarm. Let me just close it.
Dr. Jeanne (05:10.613)
Yeah, so I'm interested. Okay.
Ha!
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:22.262)
There we go. Okay, so we'll just, we'll just have to cut at that point where I asked about the bird because. Okay.
Dr. Jeanne (05:29.309)
No, it's no problem. Don't worry about it. I think we can actually cut that whole part. You can, we can just go into, okay, I'll just, I'll just start.
Dr. Jeanne (05:40.929)
Yes, I think it would be such an interesting conversation to see how we also have both come to terms with this and how we handle it and what has worked for us. I think I've done a lot better with this in the last three, three to four years, but it will be interesting to see what our listeners say. And if it's the same, it's the same things we've been having challenges with ourselves.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:49.644)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:55.406)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:58.738)
Absolutely.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:03.99)
Mm hmm. And, and my hope too, through this conversation, as you and I have chatted about before is realizing that the idea, this, the whole idea that there needs to be a super mom itself really should be obliterated. I mean, it's, do you know the holistic psychologists? I think her name's Nicole Lepera. She had a really beautiful post that she had put up about this
Dr. Jeanne (06:17.462)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (06:24.789)
Yes.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:34.004)
that we need to even have super moms is kind of reinforcing a negative belief system that you're not enough if you're
Dr. Jeanne (06:39.822)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:46.402)
doing these missions or these jobs or these things that you feel passionate about. You also have to operate at full tilt, doing just as much energetically in the mother role as well, without support, because then it makes you a super mom and it's wrong. And that's something I think is important for us to unpack as we explore this. So yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (07:00.258)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (07:04.843)
Mm.
Dr. Jeanne (07:11.289)
For sure, I agree. So what's our first question? I'm so curious.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (07:16.49)
So as I fielded this out to folks, some of the things that were said, so Brianna from New York was saying that she struggles to feel dependent on finding the 50-50 balance between her and her partner. At times feeling like it's a woe is me sensation or feeling if she has to honestly ask for help.
Dr. Jeanne (07:45.541)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (07:45.618)
and that sometimes she feels like she is a little bit broken in her way to do both work and domesticated role at the same time. And she puts a lot of pressure on herself to do it on her own. And so I think the main thing here is what does it mean to ask for support and for help from your partner and does that take away your super mom identity? So what do you think?
Dr. Jeanne (07:58.228)
Mmm.
Dr. Jeanne (08:10.429)
Yeah, honestly, look, all the answers I'm going to give today are from my experience and also having to manage my panic disorder. And that's a very big reality in our household. And I would say for that.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:17.49)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:22.911)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (08:31.005)
I don't believe in balance. I think balance is a myth. I think balance creates so much anxiety and has certainly for me as well. I think life goes through ebbs and flows and there are always going to be times where I'm more busy than other times working later than other times. And there are going to be times where I'm less busy and I have more time for my daughter and I have more time for my family. And I'm trying to really be in that moment of, okay, I'm here now where
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:37.901)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:41.89)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:51.998)
Okay.
Dr. Jeanne (08:59.809)
my work requires more of me, I'm gonna put everything into that. But I'm gonna let my family and my child know that I do still love them. And in terms of asking for help from my partner, I honestly think it goes back to when you decide to have kids. We were together, we've been together now for 20 years. So we were married for...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (09:07.918)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Dr. Jeanne (09:28.349)
eight before we even started the conversation of having kids because we weren't sure. And we had many, many conversations on what is this going to look like? Because I work crazy hours. I travel a lot. I'm not going to give that up. I don't want to give that up. So there needs to be a give and take from both sides. So what is that going to entail from you? What is that going to entail from me? And what is that going to look like?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (09:29.323)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (09:44.062)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (09:52.354)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (09:56.665)
For example, I had a really bad bout of relapse just before my daughter was born. She was very ill, she stopped growing. I was very sick as well, I couldn't eat. Like one of her lungs stopped developing. It was just really a horrible time. Yeah. And then I just went into this whole anxious, it was really bad. It was a really horrible time for me.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:06.192)
Oh.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:13.622)
Oh my goodness, that's scary. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (10:25.877)
And I decided that I was not going to breastfeed. I just can't do this. Like I don't have the emotional capacity for it. I cannot be awake so much during the night. I need to be a whole emotional person for my baby. And I know that I cannot do this right now because I had to go back on my anxiety medication. And this was one of the conversations we had. He would get up twice. I would get up once until I had healed a bit from my C-section.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:30.126)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:36.298)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:47.287)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (10:52.885)
And then we would split it. He was the night owl. I'm the early morning person. So I took the early feedings and he took the late night feedings. Just like having that conversation with each other. You know, every Sunday we get together and it's a judgment free space. And we'd say, okay, so let's check in what's happening this week. I have this and this and this, you have this and this and this. Okay. So you can take a Lily to dance class this week. You can cook dinner on Tuesday. You can do.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:54.671)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:01.099)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:04.459)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:14.75)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:21.834)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (11:22.273)
It seems so silly, but it completely changes your life and how you dedicate time to everything that you're trying to do. And it's actually increased my relationship with my daughter because the energy that I then have available to give to her is so pure and so, you know, like patient and good. But we think if we don't do that, then they're not gonna love us.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:27.766)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:39.562)
Yeah. Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:50.306)
Mm-hmm. No, no, I love it. I think we're gonna make an agreement, you, me, and all the listeners, no apologizing on here. It's an apology-free zone. And no, I love what you're saying too, because it reminds me of conversations we've had about secure attachment and how...
Dr. Jeanne (11:51.277)
Sorry, that was a super long answer.
Dr. Jeanne (12:03.227)
That's awesome. Oh, that's awesome.
Dr. Jeanne (12:15.695)
Mm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (12:16.95)
with secure attachment, a big part of it is saying what your boundaries are, saying what your needs are, letting someone know when you do or don't like something and need something. And so you sound like you have a very securely attached relationship, which is awesome. And being able to say, I'm not going to be able to do this week. You have it. Okay, great. And this week, and you also brought up such a good point about balance.
I cannot tell you how many couples I've worked with who come into couples counseling wanting 50-50 and having to remind them that 50-50 is something that sometimes happens for a day. It's not normal. There's usually going to be one partner or the other.
Dr. Jeanne (12:58.619)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (13:05.806)
who's going to need a little bit more support, whether it be because of job demands or health or a trauma happening in the family or just general mood. And.
Dr. Jeanne (13:16.573)
Yeah, as long as you just you don't have to get stuck in that and see that as being the always. It doesn't have to be.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (13:23.166)
Right. But you know, then it, I don't want to ignore the fact that not everyone has a partner.
Dr. Jeanne (13:32.805)
True, very true.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (13:35.23)
And that brings up a whole different dynamic when you've now got multiple roles to fill. And do you then, I'm kind of thinking this and also questioning, and this would be a really great thing to hear from our listeners too, do you do like a self check-in? Do you kind of check in with yourself during the beginning of a week? What do I have coming up?
Dr. Jeanne (13:44.845)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (14:02.898)
Mm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:04.974)
Who in my support network can I ask to show up for me and being willing to ask for help, whether it be friends, family, if you're blessed enough to be able to afford a sitter or a nanny or whatever that looks like. Like, I think it brings up that even if you're on your own doing the single mom thing, are you tapping into support networks that are there for you?
Dr. Jeanne (14:08.069)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (14:20.185)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (14:34.013)
Yeah, if I can just, I'm not, I have so much respect for single moms and I'm not likening myself to that in any way. But I grew up with a single parent household, a single mom. And I recognize the challenges that she faced in trying to play all of these roles. There were a lot of other things going on as well, but it was really difficult for her.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:40.843)
Uh huh.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:45.87)
Okay.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:53.986)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (15:03.533)
And I try to remind myself of those times a lot because my husband and I, our businesses are of such a type that we travel a lot. So for example, a month ago he was away for three weeks, then it's just me, you know, the buck begins and stops with me, my work hours don't change, my nothing here changes. And what I wish my parents
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:13.11)
Hmm
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:18.014)
Oh my goodness.
Dr. Jeanne (15:32.537)
had known to do because it was a different time. There was just not so much speak and education about parenthood and raising kids and all of these helping guides that we have today. And what I try to incorporate when I am the single parent many times a year is to just be honest with her. I never used to do that and it used to lead to, ha ha. Oh, he's so unhappy.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:48.149)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:55.946)
My dog. Oh my goodness. He's I bet you anything. It's Amazon. I'm bringing all the animals into this recording.
Dr. Jeanne (16:06.375)
Oh yeah, that makes sense.
Dr. Jeanne (16:14.82)
No, so it ended up causing so much more difficulties and kind of fights between us because I was getting patient with her because I would feel like I'm tired and I'm overwhelmed and I'm not getting everywhere and I'm trying to do everything for her but she's so ungrateful and all of that. And now I'm just honest with her. She will come sit next to me and she'll ask me, can we cuddle? And I'll say, you know what, honey? Right now I'm not.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:30.626)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (16:40.169)
I'm not in a space to be everything you need from a mommy. I need a moment, but you're welcome to hold my hand while I sit here and meditate, or I read my book a little bit, or she'll come into the kitchen and ask if she can help cook and I'll say, you know what, thank you for offering, but not now, I just need a little bit of alone space, but feel free to come and sit in the kitchen with your headphones if you wanna watch something here or if you wanna draw here. And...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:42.24)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:47.698)
I love that.
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (16:59.189)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (17:06.381)
Just those small changes made such a huge difference for me because there's nobody else I can lean on in those periods to say, hey, can you keep her busy? Hey, can you help? Can you drive her somewhere? We live in a different country. We don't have family here. We don't have like grandparents that we can call. So it really just is us.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:16.019)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:25.27)
Hmm
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:31.414)
You know, in a way, if you think about it, we're deconstructing super moms. So that is an excellent mom moment because if you think about it, you're teaching her boundaries. You're teaching her how to let people know when she does or does not want something. You're teaching her, it's okay to say, I don't have the bandwidth or capability, but you're not making it about her.
Dr. Jeanne (17:44.846)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (17:58.117)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (17:58.346)
You know what I mean? You're saying, and I've done that, believe me, I've done that where if it's really bad, it'll be just saying, I just can't. But in, right, I just can't. But in reality, like I think about the other day, I don't even remember what I was doing. I was doing something. I've always got a million projects going.
Dr. Jeanne (18:09.625)
I've had those moments.
GASP
Dr. Amelia Kelley (18:21.074)
And my daughter came in to my office and wanted to hang, just like you were describing. And I said, honey, I really have to finish this before dinner, but you're welcome to be in here. And so she kind of brought her little, whatever she was doing and sat and we were in space together, but I still needed to attend to what I needed to attend to. It's always been so important to me to sustain.
my individuality and the things I'm passionate about though. And I think this in a way is kind of me, I'm gonna be a little disclosing here, but kind of me correcting what I wish my mom had done. I remember growing up kind of wishing my mom had more for herself, that she did more to focus on herself.
Dr. Jeanne (18:54.094)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (19:07.532)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (19:14.749)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (19:16.338)
Um, there was definitely, you know, historically she had a little bit more of like codependent type tendencies. And in the end, it made me feel more anxious for her as opposed to more cared for in the end. And so that was something and I've talked with her about this since then. So mom, if you're listening, um,
Dr. Jeanne (19:24.012)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (19:34.157)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (19:41.17)
Hahaha!
Dr. Amelia Kelley (19:44.194)
But I think that did kind of drive, not just my desire to do that for myself, but also a lot of the work I do with the moms that I work with in my practice. Right, it's good to have a holistic identity. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (19:55.55)
Yeah, I totally get that.
You have to, you absolutely have to. What's our next question? I'm so curious.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (20:06.13)
So this one was, and these are, it's funny, I posed it as, what's a question you have about being a super mom? And I was getting all these comments of people just...
kind of unloading what they sometimes struggle with. So April from Maryland said, "'Working a 40-hour work week "'while still doing all the same things "'that stay-at-home moms do at the same time "'and then feeling guilty "'when I can't possibly do them all "'and then things fall to the wayside.'"
Dr. Amelia Kelley (20:38.742)
We've touched on today, I think we've touched on how to navigate passions, but I don't know if we really unloaded what it would be like to have to carry two full time jobs.
because those who don't have the flexibility, I mean, I will self-disclose as even though I work a lot, I have some flexibility and I'm getting the impression because you were mentioning your gratitude before of having flexibility. What about when you're moming or parenting and that's not possible? That's hard. Yeah. Yes.
Dr. Jeanne (21:03.49)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (21:12.509)
You mean when you're working in 825 you have to ask permission for when you have to go somewhere? Yeah, I get
Dr. Jeanne (21:20.989)
I mean, I think I have some opinions about this, but you, what do you think?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:24.722)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:28.758)
First of all, I just wanna empathize for those because that is so hard. And I think recognizing that...
Dr. Jeanne (21:32.619)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (21:42.07)
you don't have to do all the things that other people think you have to do. Like it's okay not to sign your child up for seven activities. It's okay not to send the Christmas card. It's okay to let certain things that you might categorically think of as, you know, mom duties or parenting duties and realize that just having time...
Dr. Jeanne (21:47.681)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (22:11.382)
together is, is in my opinion, far more important than all those extra things that sometimes get placed on our shoulders.
Dr. Jeanne (22:22.789)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. I mean, again, my mom was a single parent and she worked this 8 to 5 work week. And, you know, it was way before the days where something like work from home or flexy time or those were words that didn't even exist. So, you know, she couldn't always pick us up from school. There were many times where I was in the school.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (22:40.529)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (22:44.762)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (22:50.605)
at school in mornings when it's still dark because that's the only time she could drop you off. Um, you know, um, little disclosure. I was driving long before it was legal because we literally had no other option. She couldn't get us all where we needed to be. So it was hard. And, and I have so much respect for that. Um,
Dr. Amelia Kelley (22:54.795)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:05.073)
You rebel.
Dr. Jeanne (23:15.469)
The only thing I can really again say is if you have a support structure, ask, but maybe focus more because I know this helped me on your child and what they think of you. If your little girl, little boy thinks you're, oh, mommy, I love you so much. You're super mommy or whatever. And they're not complaining about not having extramural activities or they think you're horribly baked cupcakes are the best thing since, you know, we landed on the moon.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:21.79)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:28.891)
Mmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:35.125)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:41.762)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (23:43.949)
That's really the juice that should be driving you. And I recently had a moment where I had misunderstood something culturally here, a big thing that needed to happen at school, and I didn't do that for my little girl. And she was the only one who didn't have that. And if I had known and understood, then of course I would have, you know, and I was so upset about that and I felt so bad.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (23:56.183)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (24:04.266)
Mmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (24:08.502)
Right.
Dr. Jeanne (24:12.601)
And I was talking to her and my husband, to my husband about that. And she heard me because I didn't think she was hearing me, but she did. And we walked back to the house and she took my hand and we just walked. And it was such a wonderful moment because the sun was shining and the dogs were running beside us. And I looked back to see something or something like that. And she tugged on my hand and she looked me straight in the eye and she said, mommy, don't look back because you'll fall.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (24:19.339)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (24:27.803)
Oh.
Dr. Jeanne (24:42.617)
just go forward. And my heart just broke. And then she said, don't worry about these things in the school, mommy. Take your mind off it. Don't look back. She's six. I was like, okay, if she's giving me the okay and if she has the emotional capacity to see this, then it really doesn't matter.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (24:53.958)
Oh my goodness. Wow.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (25:04.49)
Right.
Dr. Jeanne (25:06.781)
what pressure society is putting on me because at the end of the day, I'm really actually doing this because I want my child to be happy. So if I can take my mind off all of the noise and focus on really what she took from this experience, it just makes it so much more bearable, you know?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (25:13.834)
Yes.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (25:21.354)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (25:26.974)
I think she gave the advice that we should have been giving. I mean, really, if you think about it, what would it be like if you can't do it all, you just can't possibly do it all, none of us can? What if you made a decision not to look back? What if it was just even choosing, I think of like gratitude practice, even choosing one or two things that you enjoyed that day about being with your children?
Dr. Jeanne (25:29.761)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (25:43.127)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (25:55.99)
I'll say this was something when I became a mom. I don't love evaluations. This is probably a highly sensitive thing. I don't like reviews. I get, yes.
Dr. Jeanne (26:05.262)
Me either. I am terrible at them. I used to be horrible at exams and tests.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:12.662)
Yeah, just being told like you're really good at something. You're really bad at something or just kind of like all of that So I made a vow to myself that I wasn't going to try to fix say on whether I was a good mom Or not and instead I just asked myself did I have at least one moment where I enjoyed my children today?
Dr. Jeanne (26:35.149)
That's a good one, yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (26:37.31)
And that removes the need for perfectionism. It removes the need to sign your child up for every intramural, that's a hard word to say. Extramural, is it extra? Yeah, either way. But, and just did I have a moment. And I'll have days where I work, I mean yesterday I worked from.
Dr. Jeanne (26:46.837)
Yeah, extramural.
Dr. Jeanne (26:52.389)
I'm sorry.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:03.31)
I think it was, I was out the door by nine. I was in the house by seven. I had a recording in the evening. I didn't really get to see my kids until right before bedtime. And I don't love when that happens, but it happens. And so I made sure to go.
Dr. Jeanne (27:13.497)
Mm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:21.174)
do a little snuggle on the couch and read the stories. And I had to realize I enjoyed that moment with them. And so if I focus on all the hours I couldn't be with them, I would drive myself crazy. So is there a moment where you got to enjoy them?
Dr. Jeanne (27:34.646)
Yeah, for sure.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (27:41.074)
And I think sometimes too, it makes me think of moments that are not enjoyable. When, when things are stressful or you're overstimulated, they're overstimulated. And I remember one day where I was, I was really frustrated. I was just having one of those days and.
Dr. Jeanne (27:41.43)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (27:48.921)
We all have them.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (28:01.03)
I decided to dance with my kids in the kitchen. Like that was, and it was kind of like, let's just shake the stress out. And so I think sometimes leaning into the not okay is a beautiful thing too. Like leaning into, today was a hard day. We didn't get to see each other or wow, we're all kind of at each other's throats today. Like if we focus too much on trying to be good at something it puts this inauthentic pressure.
Dr. Jeanne (28:08.929)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (28:13.085)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (28:30.738)
instead of leaning into, wow, today was a hard day, let's lean in with one another, instead of leaning away and trying to focus on what we can't do.
Dr. Jeanne (28:41.653)
And also it teaches them that it's, you are not super mom. You also have feelings. You also have challenges and limitations. Yeah. And it's great for them to see that side of you because they need to humanize with, I think, with you as well, you know, and we all have those days. I mean, the other day, it was just one of those days where everybody's late for the bus and I have so many meetings and it's my...
Dr. Amelia Kelley (28:48.682)
Yep, I don't want to be a super mom.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (28:59.33)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (29:05.846)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (29:08.149)
morning to be out of the house and I'm trying to get everybody organized and they're notorious for forgetting backpacks. Like I will put everything by the door. So she had a library book she had to take back and I said to her, listen, you're in charge because daddy's going to forget the backpack. You need to take your backpack and your library book. Okay. You need to take your backpack and your library book. Got it? Got it. So you're in charge? Yes. Okay. What do you need to take when you get out of the house? My gloves.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (29:14.422)
Hehehe
Dr. Amelia Kelley (29:25.606)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (29:39.001)
What? Are you kidding me? And I just had this moment. And she's like, mommy, you need to take a deep breath in and a deep breath out. Just put your feet on the ground and just breathe. Do you feel better? But they need to see these moments because I think in their little world, they think, oh, it's only me that has these moments that are
Dr. Amelia Kelley (29:40.066)
Hehehehe
Dr. Amelia Kelley (29:55.594)
You have a future therapist on your hands. Hehehehe.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:03.648)
Right.
Dr. Jeanne (30:08.873)
seemingly out of control, but mommy has them too and daddy has them too and it's okay. It's okay not to be okay.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:11.278)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:16.406)
Yeah. And it's okay not to have the answers right in the moment too. I think sometimes we put pressure on ourselves to if they come to us with a big heavy emotion for us to make it better as quickly as possible. And I think taking time, wow, that's hard. Like let's...
Dr. Jeanne (30:21.637)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (30:30.061)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (30:38.562)
Tell me more. I think, is it Rebecca Kennedy from Good Inside says that a lot? Is that her name? She's wonderful, but maybe it's Becky Kennedy. Either way, the wonderful parenting therapist who has the book Good Inside, she's great. And she talks about like, if your child comes to you with a big heavy topic.
Dr. Jeanne (30:40.331)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (30:44.364)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (31:03.166)
It's okay to just say, tell me more. It's okay to just listen. And it's okay not to have the answers. And I think when we put pressure on ourselves to perform, that I think of Supermom as this like action. When we think we're supposed to fulfill this action, I think sometimes you might miss out on what's really happening in the moment and really slowing down.
Dr. Jeanne (31:07.478)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (31:25.093)
Yeah, that's so true. And moments go past so quickly. We have time for one more question.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (31:34.903)
Well, so as far as the other questions, it's funny, I had someone who is not a mom who had responded and I thought what she said was interesting. She said, so this is Becky from New York. I have zero personal experience with motherhood, but here's my two cents.
Dr. Jeanne (31:44.986)
Oh, that's interesting.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (31:57.502)
I have a deep appreciation about what it's like to be a mom and what it's like to be a mom when you are carrying the weight without a supportive partner. So this is someone kind of talking about.
Dr. Jeanne (32:10.277)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:10.654)
not just single motherhood, but what is it like when moms are given an unequal distribution of responsibility? Because if you think about, and what her question is bringing, what she's leaning us towards, like how do you excel in career and this and this, the idea of mental load, we have not talked about mental load. And when I mention mental load, what I mean is this,
Dr. Jeanne (32:17.568)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (32:32.234)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (32:38.634)
It's one thing to execute something. It's one thing to say, can you help me with the laundry? And then your partner does the laundry, for instance. But the pre-planning that goes into anything, whether it be events, coordinating doctor's appointments, being able to know what your child needs or wants for Christmas or birthday or...
Dr. Jeanne (32:57.285)
Hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (33:03.95)
There's so much energy that goes into bearing mental load. And I think historically, and I'm not saying this should be the case, but I think historically women and mothers have taken a lot of the mental load on.
Dr. Jeanne (33:07.993)
Hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (33:17.133)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (33:21.185)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (33:22.594)
And the process of letting go of the mental load, it's multifaceted. But one thing personally I can think of, it's funny, you were talking about getting ready for school. So I am really on in the evening and I do all the mommying things in the evening. And I actually let go of the whole getting ready for school in the morning.
Dr. Jeanne (33:48.782)
Mm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (33:50.878)
My husband actually gets my daughter ready for school in the morning. And it's funny, this part of me that feels like I don't want to be the super mom also feels like I need to explain myself about that, which is ridiculous. It's fine. He's a morning person. He's perfectly capable of getting her ready for school, right? He always puts a loose ponytail in her hair.
Dr. Jeanne (34:02.466)
Mm.
Dr. Jeanne (34:08.409)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (34:14.85)
And that just drives you bonkers.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:16.046)
It drives me bonkers and I'm always like, can you do this? Can I show you braids? I always want to like, like for picture day, I do get up early and I get her ready. She goes to school very early. What time does your daughter go to school out of curiosity?
Dr. Jeanne (34:30.305)
Oh no, this is Europe, like 9 o'clock, the bus comes to get her at 9 a.m. in the morning.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:32.939)
What time?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:36.723)
I would be all game for that. If it was nine, I'm on it. Cause I am up then I could.
Dr. Jeanne (34:41.345)
But it will change now that she's going to the bigger school. It will be much earlier, but she's still in kindergarten. So.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:44.938)
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:48.25)
Okay, so my daughter has to be out the door by 7.30.
Dr. Jeanne (34:54.521)
Oh, yeah, that would be our new routine, but we're not there yet.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (34:57.914)
Yes, and I'm already pre-planning once my son gets in the school. I will probably start engaging and participating because I would never, the two of them in the morning would be too much. But it's funny letting go of the things that I don't always have to plan and prepare for. I can be okay.
with not knowing everything. And I think sometimes that can be difficult when for a long time we put the mental load on ourselves to do everything. And mind you, I am talking about if you have a partner and or even if you have really supportive family, friends, other people that are helping you with this parenthood journey.
Dr. Jeanne (35:28.823)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (35:38.737)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (35:40.77)
So how do you feel about the whole mental load piece? How it feels to you to carry it if you carry it and also how it feels to let it go in the case of letting loose ponytails go to school.
Dr. Jeanne (35:55.701)
Look, again, like I have real challenges with how much I can absorb and cannot, and we have to be like cognizant of that. And I've learned to let many things go, especially in our Sunday chats, you know, like the mental load, I would usually say, for example, okay, you need to take Lily to dance class on Thursday, or you need to cook dinner on Tuesday.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:06.254)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:15.901)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:23.091)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (36:25.613)
But the mental load would be, I would still need to send the address for the dance class. I would need to tell somebody he's picking her up. I would need to tell him, what are we cooking for dinner that night? And it's just over the years, our communication has just evolved to such a degree where I will now say, I need you, what I need from you this week is to take care of that. I don't care what we eat. I don't care what the menu is. Or I need you to take this as a whole.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:30.326)
Yes.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:51.219)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (36:55.521)
and take care of that. Or she has dance class on Thursday. I don't know what she needs. I need you to handle that. Like you need to phone, you need to call, you need to. And although now that she's gotten a bit older, I do more on her side. He does a lot more on the household side that does contribute to her as well. Like he cooks probably five times a week.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (36:56.848)
I love that.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:03.502)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:15.036)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:19.995)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:23.486)
Awesome.
Dr. Jeanne (37:25.241)
He does all of the manly stuff around the house, of course, also. But I mean, he takes over a lot of the household responsibilities. He does a couple of loads of laundry each week, which takes that off my shoulders as well. I think it's just really the communication of my husband's always telling me, you know, don't assume you're going to offend me. I'm a man. You need to tell me. I want you to tell me.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:30.518)
Hehehehe
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:36.47)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:40.424)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:53.57)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (37:54.765)
I don't want you to like hint or anything. Tell me what you need. And I will do exactly that. And that's what I just try to do. I was like, I don't need you to cook dinner. I need you to take care of everything related to dinner. Like I cannot do that this week. Tell me.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (37:58.65)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:09.686)
Oh my gosh, I am dying to jump on what he said. You wanna know why? It's still mental load. Tell me what you need. He sounds wonderful. I'm just, isn't this interesting? Tell me what you need.
Dr. Jeanne (38:20.236)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (38:28.298)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:31.362)
Versus if we're really gonna let go of the mental load, we probably need to do a whole episode on this. If we're really gonna let go of the mental load, they actually take notice on what is needed before we tell them, right?
Dr. Jeanne (38:47.077)
True, true, but I kind of disagree with that a little bit because at the end of the day, communication is so important and you learn to intuit what somebody needs through what you say the first time and how you express that. So, you know, like I don't want him to be a fortune teller. I can't expect that of him. And it's vice versa as well. Like I need him to tell me what he wants as well. Like
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:52.743)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (38:56.735)
Absolutely.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (39:03.006)
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (39:08.034)
Hehehe
Mm-hmm
Right.
Dr. Jeanne (39:14.781)
If you were to tell me, wash the car, I take the car to a car wash and come back. But what he meant was get the seats vacuum, get it valet. Like, so I hear what you're saying. And I think there are many situations that for sure do warrant that, but I, I just don't want us to miss the part of how important it is to have that initial foundation communication so that you don't get to that stage where it's always this mental. Load. Am I making sense?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (39:19.517)
Heh.
Right.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (39:34.83)
Absolutely.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (39:42.038)
Right. You are. Well, no, I love the contrast here. Because if you think about it, we're looking at the very beginning of where this super mom idea comes from. If we are initially taking more mental load on because we've been culturally taught that, or because we've been in society, maybe you can say biology too, because we are bearing the children.
Dr. Jeanne (39:43.861)
I hope so.
Dr. Jeanne (39:54.041)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (40:11.102)
If you think about it, if we didn't take the mental load in the first place so naturally, there wouldn't be as much of a necessity for us to offload the mental load and to ask for our needs to be met, which we should do. We should do exactly what you're saying. But it's interesting. A couple days ago, we went out to eat as a family and I had a very highly stimulating day mentally.
Dr. Jeanne (40:22.297)
Mm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (40:38.102)
and the place we were originally going to go eat ended up being closed early or something happened. By the time we got to the restaurant, I was way overwhelmed. And I looked at my husband, I said, you order for the kids.
He looked like, and he was fine doing it, but he looked as if I had asked him to give the server his kidney. And after he said, wow, I could tell you're really overwhelmed because you asked me to order for the kids. And I was thinking, wow.
What kind of standard am I setting where I'm always jumping, I'm always jumping in and ordering that he who is perfectly fine doing it wouldn't even think to do it because I'm always doing it. And so I agree in order to offload the mental load and obliterate this super mom idea, we do need to do what you did and communicate and say, this is what I need.
Dr. Jeanne (41:20.292)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (41:25.868)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (41:29.362)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (41:40.31)
Mm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (41:42.658)
But it's interesting to think at the very core of it, if we're always carrying it around, we also then have to offload it. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (41:49.193)
Yeah. You have to trust somebody with it. And I think that's sometimes the actually the worst part of the stress is you don't, you don't want to let go of it. You want to, but you don't want to.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (41:55.222)
Yes.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (42:00.079)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Right, exactly. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Dr. Jeanne (42:09.309)
Oh, this was such an amazing episode. I think there's so much to unpack here. And I love that we have comments and questions that we didn't even get through. So maybe we should do a part two because I think there's so much to say about motherhood and how that fits into our lives. So we should definitely come back to this.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (42:18.719)
Agreed.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (42:27.678)
Absolutely. Stay tuned.
Dr. Jeanne (42:29.897)
Yeah, for sure. So what are you celebrating today?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (42:34.282)
You know, I want to celebrate.
the empathy my kids have, you know, we're talking about our kids today. And the fact that I really, when I watch my kids with their friends and with us and with each other, I love how they have the space and the concern for whether or not someone else is okay. And they always think to stop and check. I just love that. That's the thing I think I'm most proud of for them. And that's my celebration.
Dr. Jeanne (42:39.405)
Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne (43:05.677)
That's beautiful. I love that. I love that. I think I'm I think I'm just celebrating that. You know, it's so great for me to see how my daughter is evolving into this little tiny being again, the same as you with empathy for other people. But she really is a highly sensitive person and has, I think, a lot of kind of underlying. Tendency toward being a little bit more anxious.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (43:07.822)
Mm-hmm. And what about you?
Dr. Amelia Kelley (43:20.418)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (43:30.466)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jeanne (43:34.897)
And just seeing how she navigates the world with that, you know, with tools I never had and things that were never granted to, I'm just so happy that she has access to those. And I can see how it benefits her. And I'm so proud of her for that. So I'm going to celebrate that.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (43:54.622)
I love that and the best advice ever given that she said earlier, don't look back. You might fall.
Dr. Jeanne (43:59.756)
Yeah, you might fall. Yeah, so cute. Okay. So join us again next week for another episode here on the sensitivity doctors. Bye.
Dr. Amelia Kelley (44:10.574)
Bye.