In this powerful episode Dr. Amelia Kelley is joined by Lindsay Abernathy, host of the Bitch is a Bad Word podcast, actor, survivor, and outspoken advocate for those navigating abusive relationships. Originally planning to discuss life and love after abuse, the conversation naturally shifted to something just as important: recognizing the signs of abuse while you’re still in it. Lindsay vulnerably shares her personal story, how love bombing, gaslighting, isolation, and manipulation became part of her daily life, and how difficult it was to see the cycle clearly while living through it. Together, Amelia and Lindsay unpack the “playbook” abusers follow, why it feels so confusing, and what survivors need to know about intermittent reinforcement, repair cycles, and reclaiming self-worth. If you or someone you love is unsure whether what they’re experiencing is abuse, this episode offers clarity, compassion, and encouragement. You’ll also hear about resources and communities ready to support you, because healing doesn’t have to happen alone.
Key Takeaways
Resources & Support Mentioned
# TSD\_lindsay\_abernathy
[00:00:00] Hey everyone. Welcome back to The Sensitivity Doctor. This is Dr. Amelia Kelly. Today I had a fabulous bestie of mine, Lindsay Abernathy on the Show. From Bitch is a Bad Word podcast. I have been on her show before. She is just fire. She's so much fun.
**Amelia Kelley:** She's super informative and such a champion for survivors. Of abusive relationships and you know, we actually started this episode thinking we were gonna talk about what do you do after you leave and how do you trust again and love again? And I think we just kind of naturally realized we needed to have the hard conversation first about what does it look like when you're in it?
**Amelia Kelley:** How do you know you're in it, and what is the playbook that all of these abusers are all following because it's really unoriginal and it's almost [00:01:00] universal. So this conversation is a little bit of her story, a little bit of the terminology that we know around abuse that she's putting into a really cool visionary.
**Amelia Kelley:** And just so much in between. So I really hope that someone out there who needs to hear this is going to hear this episode today. And if you are someone who is in a relationship where you feel unsafe or you know someone who is, please make sure to reach out or call the hotline at eight hundred seven nine nine.
**Amelia Kelley:** 7, 2, 3, 3. That's here in the States. And if you are not in America, please reach out to your local providers and see if you can find a number to, um, get some help in your area. And if you can't, please message me. Let me know and I will do the research and find it for you. I promise that to you.
**Amelia Kelley:** So sit back and I hope you enjoy the conversation and it brings you comfort and guidance in whatever you're going through right now.
gosh, We have a lot to unpack, Lindsay, at long [00:02:00] last you are here.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Thank you so much for having me on. I'm really excited to get into it with you. I had such a great time with you on my show and our continued conversations, so
**Lindsay Abernathy:** let's go.
**Amelia Kelley:** Yeah. Let's rock. Okay, so for anyone who's listening who does not know about your killer podcast that, I was honored to be on, and who you are. Can you give a little intro and also why you're so passionate
**Amelia Kelley:** about the work you do?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Of course. Well, I'm Lindsay Abernathy and I'm the host
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and creator of Bitch Is a Bad
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Word, podcast Apple, Spotify.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Anywhere you listen to your shows, you can find us,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and we joined the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** circuit in
**Lindsay Abernathy:** January. After some consideration about
**Lindsay Abernathy:** telling
**Lindsay Abernathy:** my
**Lindsay Abernathy:** story and maybe a, lot of other stories on a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** in a fictional based TV series, and that is how I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** originally pitched
**Lindsay Abernathy:** it.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I was like, there's so much going on in my
**Lindsay Abernathy:** [00:03:00] personal
**Lindsay Abernathy:** life and I've heard so many s snippets of other people's like crazy stories that I was like, this should be a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** show and, but we'll make it fiction.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And then I pitched it to who's now my producer of the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** podcast and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** everything in Hollywood had
**Lindsay Abernathy:** kind of been upside down that all the writers were on, strike.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** We knew SAG would strike next. and so she's like, do you think you could make this a podcast? I'm like, I have no idea. I've never done that before, but like, gimme a challenge and I'll fucking go. So let's do it. So it. started as we really just turning the mic on and we all said Just be prepared that we're gonna speak to an audience of one maybe. And it didn't go that way. It ended up being kind of rolling out in a,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** in a, in a pretty big audience, and then people responding and coming back to us saying, thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you for much for having a platform like this. what I was doing research into like how I wanted our show to be.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** What I was seeing was. Amazing professionals like yourself that were speaking
**Lindsay Abernathy:** on topics that were [00:04:00] very clinical and using big words and things that I'm like, I don't know what this means, but I just know that I'm in a relationship that is not healthy, and I would Google is this abuse?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Then I would hear these terms, and so I'm listening to these shows.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I'm think.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** How do I reach it on a survivor platform where I am just like sitting here as your
**Lindsay Abernathy:** bestie and we're on the couch
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and we're just, I'm the person you can talk to. I'm the person that you can share
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the, you know, the dirty laundry, spill the tea with, and then we can bring on these
**Lindsay Abernathy:** big names, big professionals with the big
**Lindsay Abernathy:** words and the, all the letters behind their names, and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** really kind of bring the two together.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So that was the, that was the goal. My backstory is I was an actor.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I worked on the Walking Dead Vampire Diaries. I've been in film and TV forever,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** so I wasn't, this was a new, new space and it
**Lindsay Abernathy:** just came into a way that was like, I wanna be
**Lindsay Abernathy:** [00:05:00] relatable. I want to be able for somebody listening for just five seconds, somebody who maybe
**Lindsay Abernathy:** be just popping on to a podcast wondering if the relationship that they're in is not good. They can hear somebody breaking it down to the lowest common denominator. So that is our show.
**Amelia Kelley:** I love how you say the lowest common denominator.
**Amelia Kelley:** I like how you had described your origin of bestie though, because I've heard you and I've seen you use besties quite often, which I think is so cute. On, you know, your platforms and whatnot, and admittedly jealously, I'm like, Ooh, why, why can I call my people?
**Amelia Kelley:** it's, it's so brilliant, but I kind of love that it wasn't even because you were trying to. Reach anyone necessarily, just kind of organically happen because that's who you wanna be
**Amelia Kelley:** talking to.
**Amelia Kelley:** I love
**Lindsay Abernathy:** It, it, yeah, it definitely evolved this way. So I,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** if you know me personally.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I say it to my kids, I say it to my
**Lindsay Abernathy:** friends, I'm like, oh, you're so, you're my [00:06:00] bestie. And
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I all my like my daughters when they were growing up, I'm like, I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** have the best day. I love you You're my bestie. And they're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like, you're my bestie. too. So it was always, it's something that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I have always said in my inner circle of just
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that's telling you that you're my people and I love you and you're my besties. And as this was growing, I'm
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** wait, I am. I wanna be your bestie. You need a bestie.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Let's be real. your best friend that's sitting next to you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** may not even know that you're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** in an abusive relationship because there's a lot of shame and you may not be sharing
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that part of your story. and so that's what I'm here to be is, and now it's like, growing. We're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** we're growing a freaking bestie gang. We're like, we are your, We're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** your milk mafia and we just want to.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Grow this amazing community where people can go in and and find
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you know, that, that.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** voice that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** helps 'em feel that they're not alone.
**Amelia Kelley:** So your story. Led you here. I don't [00:07:00] know how much you wanna share of it, but if you could maybe just, just a glimpse to help maybe a couple of your future sensitivity, Dr. Besties feel like they could relate to you. Yeah.
**Amelia Kelley:** I don't think what I call my kids would work, because I'm pretty sure my listeners don't wanna be called my boo
**Amelia Kelley:** boos, but.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** But hey, you know what, like I got, I'm your boo doctor.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** let's go booze. Like we could gimme a couple days and I'll think of something
**Amelia Kelley:** Okay. Okay. Hit me up.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yes. I mean,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you know, I I share the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** story. loosely, right? I, I love, I've been very vulnerable. I've been very open about my situation and, and in ways that I'm trying to, you know, obviously not share too much, but I was in a domestically abusive relationship for a very long time,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and I didn't know it
**Lindsay Abernathy:** at the time, but I knew it, at the time. if that, it's like now that I'm outside and I'm looking at it through a different lens and I'm hearing [00:08:00] so many people tell, share their stories.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I'm like, this is exactly what it was, but I didn't understand the pattern. So it, my story starts much like everybody
**Lindsay Abernathy:** else's in a relationship,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** very quick with somebody who was very charming, who
**Lindsay Abernathy:** spoke, you know very well, and quoted books and people that I'd never heard of.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And I was this sort of chill, be trot. Just what's up? What's up? Hey, what's up?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Pissed. I was just that person. So then I'm like, wow, somebody. Somebody's more educated seemingly more intelligent,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** maybe I can learn something. And so our relationship moved very, very quickly.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** What I now know as love bombing was happening, and I had come from a, a relationship prior, and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I was not, I can say now, I like to own this.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Part
**Lindsay Abernathy:** of my story is that I wasn't ready, I wasn't healed. I hadn't done the work on myself that I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** needed to do. So I was a pretty easy target. In a [00:09:00] few different ways. Like I feel in some, like I was the sitting duck
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and as the relationship progressed and it did, it
**Lindsay Abernathy:** was like we were
**Lindsay Abernathy:** meeting, you know, on vacation very like elaborate vacations, elaborate dinners,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** elaborate things, just so fancy and you're sort of swept off your feet in those moments that what I, you know, wasn't really listening to myself and to my gut.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And then it moved. By the time I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** it,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** by the time I maybe could have
**Lindsay Abernathy:** rolled it back and said,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** hold on, let's like pump the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** brakes.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I was so invested. I was so in love. I was so
**Lindsay Abernathy:** into this
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that I kind of thought that maybe it was,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I was not seeing it the right way or there would be. Little comments or things that were happening that I'm like, did I hear that right?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And now that I know it was gaslighting, no, you're you. I didn't say that. I didn't mean it like that. You're so sensitive. And then we moved in together very quickly and we had like children together very [00:10:00] quickly.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So very fast forward. And then
**Lindsay Abernathy:** as the relationship continued.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** The, you know, the, the ante was upped and it went from just sort of like snide comments to really shitty comments, to shittier comments, and really just all the things about me
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that at one point this person
**Lindsay Abernathy:** valued and thought were so amazing and so rad. Were just like the worst, most heinous qualities that they hated. And they like, they loathed me.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And that put me in a place where
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I had just no self-worth anymore. It because it was so confusing. I'm like, but this is
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I haven't changed. This is the person that you say you loved and now you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like, you loathe these things about me that I can't fundamentally really change.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** You know, I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** don't, and I don't really want to change. And two, what was happening was.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** All of my, my circle, which was really [00:11:00] big. I had great friends and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like I knew a lot of people and I was in a, I worked in Hollywood. I had really rad people in my life, just super baddies. And they were all systematically.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Now I see, we're like stripped away and my support system was narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow, narrower. And then
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I would talk about things that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** were very vulnerable to me, and then those would come
**Lindsay Abernathy:** back
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and, you know, oh, your, your, your dad's a crazy, your brother's an asshole.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So I started to believe that all of these people that were in my life were actually causing all these
**Lindsay Abernathy:** problems for us.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So I was
**Lindsay Abernathy:** pushing people out. What I now know is that that's the game isolation. They put you in a silo. You only see the world for their,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like through their lens, and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you're easily controlled and manipulated. So
**Lindsay Abernathy:** by the time it got to the point where it
**Lindsay Abernathy:** was just like absolute ex escalation
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and things were getting physical.
**Amelia Kelley:** Mm-hmm.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** That was during a time, like during a lockdown, you know, the [00:12:00] things, there wasn't really anybody to talk to about it then, either.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So it was like I was hidden and then I, I thought, you know what, like
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I was, I, we were in this argument and he was saying all these things, and then I, I pushed back on him like, why are you talking to me like this?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And it was get, you know, maybe it, maybe I deserved it. Maybe what did I do? Maybe. So anyway, all of this to say that I spent a lot of time.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** relationship where I was walking on eggshells, I was like, hushing, my chil like children almost feeding them words to say when, you know, the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** other person came around
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and we could pretty much tell the mood by
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the way he opened the door and or pulled his car into the driveway. And I would go into immediately
**Lindsay Abernathy:** okay, you guys go do this. You go do this. I'm gonna have this. And it, I,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** we just lived in this Walking around this person's mood.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And at the same
**Lindsay Abernathy:** time, I am blending a family. I have other things happening. And so I could always [00:13:00] justify the bad behavior or the arguments or because we had so much going on and there was a few times where I would be like living in a moment and they would say to me like, well, when this happens, life will be better when we have this.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Life will be better when we move here, when we do this, which I now know is future faking. I lived so much in the future of if we can just get through this moment, if we can just get through this hard place, they won't be so mean.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** They won't say, you know, they won't say
**Lindsay Abernathy:** bad words and it's not true. That's
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the bad words, continued.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So yeah, I just had, I, you know, spent a lot of time thinking it was a me
**Lindsay Abernathy:** problem. I spent a lot of time.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Thinking if I just changed who I was, if I just minimized myself, if I stopped saying
**Lindsay Abernathy:** street words, if I stopped saying this, if
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I dressed this way, if I did this, if I cooked, if I quit my job, if I did all these things, then I would be what [00:14:00] I would get back.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** The
**Lindsay Abernathy:** person
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that was so amazing to me in the, in
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the beginning
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and sort
**Lindsay Abernathy:** of what I've
**Lindsay Abernathy:** learned now is, you know. When we hear these questions like, well, why didn't you just leave? It was so bad. Why did you, didn't, you know, why did you stay? I mean, I, I had a million reasons I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** had to stay.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I had kids, I wasn't quite sure I was ready to blow up
**Lindsay Abernathy:** another relationship. I wasn't quite
**Lindsay Abernathy:** sure how I was, you know, going to live and,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** but I didn't
**Lindsay Abernathy:** want the relationship to end. I just wanted the abuse to stop.
**Amelia Kelley:** Oh, that's powerful.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that was what it
**Lindsay Abernathy:** was. It was like, ' they're not mean all the time. They're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** not bad all the time. They're not, you know, that's
**Lindsay Abernathy:** not what's happening.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So in those moments
**Lindsay Abernathy:** where
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they're being, they're back and they're loving you again and you're back on
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** pedestal, you're like, whatever I have to do, this is what I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** can live with. I can live with this
**Lindsay Abernathy:** relationship for the rest of my life if it can just
**Lindsay Abernathy:** stay this way, but it doesn't. So, and I think most
**Lindsay Abernathy:** people, they don't, they don't want. [00:15:00] They're in love or you're addicted. You know, we're learning that too. You know, when you're addicted to that person and you're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you have
**Lindsay Abernathy:** been
**Lindsay Abernathy:** love bombed,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and you're chemically like, I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** have to get, you know, I have to get off the drugs
**Lindsay Abernathy:** of this person. That's hard to do
**Lindsay Abernathy:** too. And balance the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** family. Take kids to carpool,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** take kids to.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** soccer, all the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** things.
**Amelia Kelley:** Right. Abstinence from a person, especially if you're co-parenting or you have any sort of intermingling of your lives, is a
**Amelia Kelley:** huge undertaking.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yes. And you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** know,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you want, you, we have all these like visions of. What success and failure
**Lindsay Abernathy:** look like in life and success Looks like, you have an intact
**Lindsay Abernathy:** family and a mom and a dad. And I came from a divorced
**Lindsay Abernathy:** family, so I'm like,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** oh God. Like here I am doing it again.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Like now I've done it twice.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So I had a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** lot
**Lindsay Abernathy:** of
**Lindsay Abernathy:** make my own self
**Lindsay Abernathy:** loathing moments where I just felt like I have to do whatever I can
**Lindsay Abernathy:** do to keep this family together because I owe that to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** my [00:16:00] kids. And two, I felt like if I was not with my kids. A hundred percent of
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the time, then I didn't know what they would be living through. So I felt at least if I'm here, I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** can offset and I can counterbalance and I can
**Amelia Kelley:** you just,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the temperature.
**Amelia Kelley:** That okay. There's. That just hits such a chord for me because there are people I love in my own life who are not removing themself from a dangerous situation right now for that very reason, and It is so painful
**Amelia Kelley:** to
**Amelia Kelley:** watch.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** It's gotta be painful to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** watch.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I hear it from my family who were on the outside just like screaming oh my God, I can't do this. I can't watch. just go, you know? And we say this a lot, I say this on my show, like, you know, There's no
**Lindsay Abernathy:** shame in
**Lindsay Abernathy:** staying. There's no shame in it. You know, whatever, however long it takes you to get to the point where you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** understand that the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** emotional and physical safety is outweighs any
**Lindsay Abernathy:** fantasy that [00:17:00] we, we
**Lindsay Abernathy:** can have
**Lindsay Abernathy:** of keeping our family together because.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** If you're in a relationship with
**Lindsay Abernathy:** a pathological person, an abusive
**Lindsay Abernathy:** person, so unfortunately you just like you have the bad guy lottery, and you have to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** just live with, with,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** what you can make better on the other side.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And what I say to your friend
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and your friends that are listening,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** promise you that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** leaving is the best thing that you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** can do for yourself and your children because.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** You are living in a relationship where a hundred percent of their
**Lindsay Abernathy:** environment
**Lindsay Abernathy:** is hectic, chaotic, unhealthy, and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you're teaching the your children that this is A acceptable, or B,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like to accept as from a partner or teaching them that this is the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** behavior that they should mimic and mirror and become that person to another partner and.
**Amelia Kelley:** Right.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** That's not good, right? So we have to be cycle breakers and break that cycle [00:18:00] and guess
**Lindsay Abernathy:** what? For your 50% of the time or whatever your
**Lindsay Abernathy:** time
**Lindsay Abernathy:** split ends up being. And I know it's I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** can't even
**Lindsay Abernathy:** imagine. I don't have
**Lindsay Abernathy:** my kids for 50% of the time. Well, for 50% of your children's lives, you get
**Lindsay Abernathy:** to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** wholeheartedly
**Lindsay Abernathy:** create the environment.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** It can be calm and beautiful and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you know. Safe
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and you get to be that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** person where that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** your children will,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** learn and they will, I promise you, they will learn that you're the safe
**Lindsay Abernathy:** parent and they can come home and regulate themselves with you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they have 50% of their time
**Lindsay Abernathy:** to not be in the chaos
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and that is going to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** serve them over their life longer than.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Staying in the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** relationship. Well, and believe
**Lindsay Abernathy:** me,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I used to count like, how many years until they're 18? How many,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** how many Christmases can I get
**Lindsay Abernathy:** through this? You know, having another
**Lindsay Abernathy:** hectic, horrible Christmas where [00:19:00] there ends up being a fight or another
**Lindsay Abernathy:** holiday that's ruined or another birth.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** 'cause
**Lindsay Abernathy:** God forbid, you try to have any of those things with a pathological or narcissistic person, they're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** gonna ruin the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** shit out of it.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So now I'm like, we get to have, you know, half those Christmases together, but half of those
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Christmases are gonna be
**Lindsay Abernathy:** amazing. If they're not gonna be kids looking back, going, God, like every holiday sucked.
**Amelia Kelley:** you know, when I think about, there's this really powerful piece of research that was looking at how much do the negative experiences in our childhood impact us in comparison to our positive experiences and our positive attachments. And when, from what I've seen from all the research, it all points in the same direction
**Amelia Kelley:** that. When there is at least one primary connection, secure attachment connection,
**Amelia Kelley:** it can be enough to create the full structure of a healthy ego state for a child, as in when they've grown into adulthood. Now, that doesn't mean they're not [00:20:00] gonna have to do a lot of therapy. That doesn't mean there's not a lot of processing.
**Amelia Kelley:** So it makes me think of what you're saying where we're saying 50% of the time, which honestly my friend, who I'm thinking of, who probably knows who I am speaking to. He will not get 50%.
**Amelia Kelley:** That's all I have to
**Amelia Kelley:** say.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I just had chills. I'm like, hell yes. Good.
**Amelia Kelley:** he will not get 50%, but for whatever percentage there with her, it will be the whole version of her.
**Amelia Kelley:** Because when you are trying to sustain peace in the abuse, even if you're. Dictating and making sure everything's okay. They're still never getting the full scope of you because you're in that
**Amelia Kelley:** survival state all the time.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** You are stressed, af and. Your kids feel it and your, your PTSD is real, they're,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you know, everything that's happening
**Lindsay Abernathy:** is like a [00:21:00] trigger.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And then you're also trying to manage somebody else's emotions,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** whereas, you know, we have to understand and learn, like that's not our responsibility.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** You know, we can't, but we have, we are in that survival mode where we feel like we have to control
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that per the environment. And it's exhausting. So I like wanna tell your besties to say.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** listen,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** hopefully you get a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** hundred percent custody. Hopefully you get or whatever the, depending on how, like whatever the situation works out to be. But in your time
**Lindsay Abernathy:** off, you get to reinvent
**Lindsay Abernathy:** yourself. you get to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** breathe
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and, and do things that you weren't allowed to do.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** You get to come back into
**Lindsay Abernathy:** yourself. You get to grow those. You know, parts of you that have just been dead
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and you know, buried
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and you also get to have
**Lindsay Abernathy:** your life that you know your friend's
**Lindsay Abernathy:** back that didn't want anything to do with your horrible
**Lindsay Abernathy:** relationship that like your family that left, like the people that left your life because [00:22:00] they were either pushed
**Lindsay Abernathy:** out by your partner or they just, sometimes, sometimes people are like, I can't do this.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I can't, I can't be part of this anymore. It's too exhausting. They've got their own life to live, right? They all the good
**Lindsay Abernathy:** ones.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Come back and then you're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like, I'm back baby. Let's do this.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And it feels amazing. And your kids see that. Your kids see that light in your eyes. The your kids see you happy
**Lindsay Abernathy:** again.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Hope to God, you know, you get, they get to witness,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you know, and, and of the version of you that you know is there. and That is so beautiful.
**Amelia Kelley:** I love that so much. And you know, one other question I have about your thoughts on this, like kids and family, and then I know.
**Amelia Kelley:** I wanted to pick your brain a little bit about. What do you do if you wanna do this again, if you wanna go back to bat and try to find that partner and how do you trust yourself to do that again?
**Amelia Kelley:** So stay tuned part two of the episode. But one other thing that comes to my mind when it comes to family [00:23:00] though is you just said the people who like couldn't put up with it, or maybe you had kind of phased out during that isolation phase of which, can I just say the way that you recounted what you experienced in your relationship.
**Amelia Kelley:** I mean, it's shocking to me that there's not literally a textbook for these abusers because it's so unoriginal when you look, when you look at the, the way that
**Amelia Kelley:** it progresses.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yeah, I say that like,I wanna know what the, like the dirty mag that they're passing around, like the abuse, dirty playbook. 'cause I'm like, they're all, I've been doing the show for a minute.
**Amelia Kelley:** Mm-hmm.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Every person that comes on, I could, I almost
**Lindsay Abernathy:** wanna
**Lindsay Abernathy:** sit there with my Bingo card
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and be like,
**Amelia Kelley:** Yes. Love bumming.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yep. We did it.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Check.
**Amelia Kelley:** monitor. Oh, What is it? Financial abuse like
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yes.
**Amelia Kelley:** ding,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Faking.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Oh, amazing. Yeah. We've done it.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** all guys.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yes. Right.[00:24:00]
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And it's so, well, I will say Amelia, this is exciting
**Lindsay Abernathy:** because we are,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I, I'm dropping a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** book, but we're doing it online first, but
**Lindsay Abernathy:** we're,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** we're building a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** visionary.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And so the, the visionary is all of these terms that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** were
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like, but now I have, you've given me a really great idea to put it in.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I was
**Lindsay Abernathy:** putting in like alphabetical
**Lindsay Abernathy:** order, It's
**Lindsay Abernathy:** kind of an urban dictionary, but yes, succession is such a great idea.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So we are, we're the ary. look out
**Lindsay Abernathy:** for it. I'll
**Amelia Kelley:** that that's amazing and so so useful because it's kind of like, what would this look like if this were to
**Amelia Kelley:** happen or if this is happening to
**Amelia Kelley:** me.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** well, because it doesn't make sense when you're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** in it. You're sitting there going, okay. and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** valuation,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you know, they,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the value, the devalue, all of these things. That is the how they hook you. And I say this all the time, you're not like, there's not anything
**Lindsay Abernathy:** wrong with you If you're sitting here listening, going, what?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** What the hell? How did I let [00:25:00] myself get here? Because I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** would say the same thing. You're not going on a first
**Lindsay Abernathy:** date with
**Lindsay Abernathy:** somebody and they're slapping you in the face
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and
**Amelia Kelley:** Right.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** to see you tomorrow. unless that's your
**Lindsay Abernathy:** thing. you know, and you've agreed and consent
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that you like, yeah, that. That's a different community. But if
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that's consensual and that's what you're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** in
**Lindsay Abernathy:** for, great. But the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** majority of us aren't down for that,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and it's not happening that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** way.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** It is insidious. It is slow burning, and it can
**Lindsay Abernathy:** take
**Lindsay Abernathy:** days, weeks, months, years, and again, going
**Lindsay Abernathy:** back
**Lindsay Abernathy:** to, you know how they methodically do it by the time that they have removed you and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** put
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you in the silo.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** You don't know, and they're gaslighting. You don't know
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you're up from down or you're down from up, And you sit there very confused. And again,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** it's because of the insidious nature of it in that in
**Lindsay Abernathy:** between. Like Dr. Nay love, I love her,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** what she says, like intermittent reinforcement.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** [00:26:00] And that's what
**Lindsay Abernathy:** it is.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** You're in there and in that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** moment
**Lindsay Abernathy:** where you're like, they've just told you you're the absolute,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** see you next Tuesday. You're the worst mom. You can't cook. I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** hate the way you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** dress. You're getting fat, dah dah, dah. You don't do anything
**Lindsay Abernathy:** right and you suck.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Then you're, while
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you are still ruminating in all of that. They have this ability
**Lindsay Abernathy:** to just,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** it's gone. It, once it's out of their
**Lindsay Abernathy:** mouth, it doesn't even
**Lindsay Abernathy:** sit with them. They don't feel bad. They have no remorse and they can
**Lindsay Abernathy:** crawl into bed
**Lindsay Abernathy:** with you And
**Lindsay Abernathy:** let me hold
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you. I love
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you. You know, I'm so sorry you made me
**Lindsay Abernathy:** say those things. I, you know, and then you're going, okay, well they're the only ones here to pick up the damn
**Lindsay Abernathy:** pieces. So I ha and now they're loving me again. And now
**Lindsay Abernathy:** let's go on vacation. Let's go to dinner. Let me buy you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** something. All
**Lindsay Abernathy:** it,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the, the cycle happens within the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** cycle, and that's, you know, they're back to doing the succession of it all
**Lindsay Abernathy:** again and again, and again and again. And that is why we're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** just
**Lindsay Abernathy:** [00:27:00] like,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** sort
**Lindsay Abernathy:** of
**Lindsay Abernathy:** trapped in this just cyclone
**Lindsay Abernathy:** of
**Lindsay Abernathy:** confusion that, you know, and, and then you, you're like, I, there'd be days where I'm like in the shower completely crying.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Looking at myself feeling like the worst possible version,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** feeling gross, feeling ugly, feeling stupid,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and believing every single word. Leaving every single thing. And I'm
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I've got so much work to do if I'm gonna,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you know, turn this ship around. And they're really
**Lindsay Abernathy:** talented at
**Lindsay Abernathy:** getting into your brain.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** They're like that, like a wormhole.
**Amelia Kelley:** Right. Yeah. And
**Amelia Kelley:** you.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they're con artists. That's the thing too. They're so, they're, that's why they can all read this. Like they're all, they all play the same thing. It's like this particular particular pathological person, abusive person, they, they're really good at what they do.
**Amelia Kelley:** Right.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** real
**Amelia Kelley:** Right. And you. know, you, you had brought up intermittent [00:28:00] reward, which I've, I've spoken about and I actually, in, in what I wish I knew had talked about it, that that was my first book. But the one with the survivor. But I think the thing about intermittent reward that struck me was our actual hormonal and neurological response to it.
**Amelia Kelley:** I sometimes call it like a psychological slot machine, right? We're
**Amelia Kelley:** not gonna keep plugging quarters in and going for it if we know it's never ever going to pay out. But when it pays out, our euphoria hits
**Amelia Kelley:** so high. That we're fine with measly quarters dropping out after we've dropped a hundred dollars into the machine, and it kind of reminds me of the standard of repair that can happen.
**Amelia Kelley:** I think in the beginning, this is me just hypothesizing from what I've seen. Okay,
**Amelia Kelley:** so I'm not saying this is, you know, set in stone, but in the beginning. When [00:29:00] someone is love bombing you, and then you're getting into the cycle of abuse where they are trying to repair, and then we go back around.
**Amelia Kelley:** What I have seen is the efforts in the beginning are more grand,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Mm-hmm.
**Amelia Kelley:** but as the relationship progresses, I had a client recently that we have lovingly called almost every repair. Her emotionally abusive husband uses the queso because. She had one instance where he offered her the last bit of queso on the buffet at an event they were at, and
**Amelia Kelley:** that meant so much to her.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** OMFG. I have to tell you this, I, because.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** this was his thing for me And this fucking breadcrumb was like, I was eating this baguette. And
**Lindsay Abernathy:** he would always say like,the last bite is for
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you. And I'm like, Ugh.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** ew. Actually the last gross bite of the crusty, crappy piece peas, [00:30:00] but.
**Amelia Kelley:** here's the mold,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yeah, and I was so,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I ate it up like it was the first bite and the cake was only made for me, and it was so
**Lindsay Abernathy:** special. I ate that last little, like, I'm full. I don't want it. That's really what it is. Like it was, but I meant so much to me that it
**Lindsay Abernathy:** kept me in it. okay,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** well he, he said, I'll
**Lindsay Abernathy:** always get the last bite, and he's doing it and.
**Amelia Kelley:** Ah,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** It's so wrong. It's like not. Yes. It's like the fact that that's what she's like queso. Are you? I'm sure he gave me the last little bit of queso too.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Like it's crusty. We don't need that.
**Amelia Kelley:** Maybe we should create a new term to go in your veterinary
**Amelia Kelley:** about like the crusty
**Amelia Kelley:** endings or something. I dunno. And really it's kind of like the repair method evolves where like,okay, so our standard of safety has gone from here to here. So now the standard re repair only needs to be ever so [00:31:00] high. And it's if you're listening and you feel like.
**Amelia Kelley:** You are, to your point, eating up a repair. Something as simple as, do you want me to make dinner tonight? Which is a completely reasonable collaborative thing that adults should do for each other. That's not a grand gesture. People, that's, that's like
**Amelia Kelley:** being an adult.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yeah. Your relationship,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** especially if you have kids, should not be 50 50. It should be 100, 100.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And you know, it's not just like one person
**Lindsay Abernathy:** gets no, you're all showing up a hundred percent. Or you show, you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** know, and then you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** kind of go down from there. What can I, you're not helping, you're not babysitting the kids.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** You know, you're not,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that's not
**Lindsay Abernathy:** it. Like no, it is part of this equal opportunity relationship. And when you're, but.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** They were like,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** oh, you, you sleep in. I mean, well, I don't know. I never had that situation. It seemed like the more I had when I had more
**Lindsay Abernathy:** kids, it got it ticked up And there was like, [00:32:00] sometimes I would think
**Lindsay Abernathy:** are you jealous
**Lindsay Abernathy:** of are children, are you jealous of are you mad at me?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Like
**Amelia Kelley:** you do know that's a cornerstone of narcissism is that generally they're threatened by children and their behavior gets worse. Not better
**Amelia Kelley:** with the introduction of
**Amelia Kelley:** children.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Well, that is tick that box because that's
**Lindsay Abernathy:** exactly what happened and I just always, I'm like I've just made a human,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** what did you do today? I made a human, so I'm
**Lindsay Abernathy:** going to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I'm gonna rest and I'm gonna lie down
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like that never happened.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Like most of our
**Lindsay Abernathy:** things, that's kind of right, exactly
**Lindsay Abernathy:** what happened.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Things sort of ticked up. all of a sudden, we need to move, we need to renovate, we need to like what we just, can I need
**Lindsay Abernathy:** to lie down and not get up for six weeks? And I didn't have,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** There was
**Lindsay Abernathy:** no like, rubbing my feet moments. There was no, it was very sad looking
**Lindsay Abernathy:** back on it, but I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** felt like I was
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Told
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that this was my job. The job [00:33:00] is you are the morning nurse. The night
**Lindsay Abernathy:** nurse. At one point the conversation was, I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** was like, I'm just, I need a break from nursing.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** he, the baby won't stop nursing,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I just need a minute. And the conversation in the middle
**Lindsay Abernathy:** of the night wasn't, let me take the baby
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and on a walk or like,you know, the baby can take a break.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Nursing
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the conversation
**Lindsay Abernathy:** was,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you are. The baby ex like sole purpose to survive is like solely on you. And so you are
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the bottle. You are the so resource. And I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** remember being sha, now
**Amelia Kelley:** Wow. Yeah.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I needed a break
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and
**Amelia Kelley:** too.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** yeah, no, this is your job. You are like a boob for this baby and that's your job. And
**Lindsay Abernathy:** so complaining about it or I, or needing help felt like I was
**Lindsay Abernathy:** complaining and.
**Amelia Kelley:** be okay too. Like having nursed
**Amelia Kelley:** it's okay to complain, like It
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Right. It hurt.
**Amelia Kelley:** you can get over touched like it is getting touched out is a real [00:34:00] thing. Valid to complain sometimes.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Okay. Well, thank you.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Because I was
**Lindsay Abernathy:** complaining.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** My boobs hurt and I was like, then I was nursing while I was pregnant with another baby. So
**Lindsay Abernathy:** then I was like, I can't,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** this is like so
**Lindsay Abernathy:** much. And I have other kids. So in those moments
**Lindsay Abernathy:** though, you're, they're very good.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Again, I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** guess
**Lindsay Abernathy:** your, your guards are down.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** You're ti all the things
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that we now know are just part of the playbook
**Lindsay Abernathy:** to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** make you just feel so bad.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you can
**Lindsay Abernathy:** also in the same time justify that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** why this is
**Lindsay Abernathy:** happening and, you know, I, if I'm so tired and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** no, I don't wanna have sex and no, I don't wanna
**Lindsay Abernathy:** do these things. So like,I'm probably pushing 'em away or. Because now
**Lindsay Abernathy:** a healthy partner
**Lindsay Abernathy:** would be completely understanding and, you know,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** be supportive.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Whereas a pathological, abusive person, they are jealous. They're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they are mad. You know, that's, and that's not an [00:35:00] easy thing
**Lindsay Abernathy:** to deal with too. You have,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I, I always wanna say like when I share these stories, that the person that's
**Lindsay Abernathy:** listening who may be listening in nursing.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** You are doing the most amazing
**Lindsay Abernathy:** thing ever. You know, you are a badie, you are a mother, and you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** should be celebrated. And if you're not, I'm sorry we're here for you, but just everything that they're telling you is a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** lie.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Everything, nothing about what they say about
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you is true. I it's not. So
**Lindsay Abernathy:** just know that and they're Like
**Lindsay Abernathy:** We talk about this, I think, did we talk about this before? But I used to be like accused of things all the time and I'm like, when would I have done this? I have 9,000 kids. Like when would I was, where was I? I was where And doing what with who? Like I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** was
**Lindsay Abernathy:** no okay. That didn't happen. No, I wasn't there.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** No
**Lindsay Abernathy:** whatever. I won't get into super detail today, but what I realized was [00:36:00] they were projecting all the things
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they were doing.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** On to me. So
**Lindsay Abernathy:** cheating, spending too much money,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** not being clear with, you know,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** intentions. Not, you know, being avoidant, not being there for the family.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Those were all things that they were doing to me, but making it seem like
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I, and then how do you justify to some,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** there's no crazier scenario
**Lindsay Abernathy:** where somebody's accusing you of something you absolutely didn't do. They will, they are relentless,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like a freaking honey badger. And they
**Lindsay Abernathy:** get like to the point where you're like, do I just admit that I did the thing I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** didn't do? So they'll just leave me alone,
**Amelia Kelley:** Mm-hmm.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you know? Okay, fine.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Ah,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** yeah,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** fine. Then that's, that's real. so many women
**Lindsay Abernathy:** say, I, I admitted to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** doing things I never did, just so I could get them to stop.
**Amelia Kelley:** Right
**Lindsay Abernathy:** leave, gimme a break. I'm like, no. That's called you know.
**Amelia Kelley:** gaslighting.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** in yeah, that's counseling, but it's also like prisoners of war shit. That's
**Amelia Kelley:** Gosh. Yeah, No,
**Amelia Kelley:** I mean, [00:37:00] seriously. And if you think about the fact that if we look at the playbook that you were talking about from earlier, by
**Amelia Kelley:** that point, there's already so many cracks in the foundation, like, your sense of self has already been worked on so
**Amelia Kelley:** hard that for us to be like able to stand up for ourself, we have to
**Amelia Kelley:** be able to stand up.
**Amelia Kelley:** But if we're already feeling so broken down. That's a lot harder to do, especially when something is, someone is charismatic and convincing and
**Amelia Kelley:** they can fill in the gaps. what were you doing last Saturday? I don't, off the top of my head, I don't know what I was doing last
**Amelia Kelley:** Saturday. It would take me a moment to think
**Amelia Kelley:** about it,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** But
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you're a liar. What were you doing? Where were you? Why don't you remember? You don't remember Because like lies are really hard
**Amelia Kelley:** Right. And
**Amelia Kelley:** then you're Like
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the truth is easy.
**Amelia Kelley:** but I, wasn't, but I, right, exactly. And so it's, it's, and I think also one of the things about the love bombing phase that we didn't talk about was that not only is it a time to adore and adore. [00:38:00] But all the questions and wanting to get to know you so intensely and intimately without sharing their own vulnerability might seem like
**Amelia Kelley:** someone who's a good listener, but in fact, it can also be someone who's just collecting
**Amelia Kelley:** information.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yep. They're taking inventory.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** They're taking the inventory. They are. Oh wow. You're like, that was such a hard
**Lindsay Abernathy:** childhood you had with your mother. Oh, wow. I will tell you, I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** shared that I was sexually assaulted when
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I was
**Lindsay Abernathy:** a teenager and.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I was very vulnerable and they were very upset about this. Imagining me as a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** teenager being sexually, being raped.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** That's, I'm gonna say the R
**Lindsay Abernathy:** word. I was raped
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and I, hadn't shared it with
**Lindsay Abernathy:** somebody so quickly before, and I hadn't really shared it much at all. Maybe
**Lindsay Abernathy:** one other person knew. And
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they were like, on a crusade, I'm gonna go
**Lindsay Abernathy:** find the person and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they must be exist. Like I'm gonna, and I'm like, [00:39:00] here's my knight in shining armor, coming
**Lindsay Abernathy:** to save my 16-year-old self who really needed this
**Lindsay Abernathy:** person.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And
**Lindsay Abernathy:** it came back later in the most revolting, disgusting
**Lindsay Abernathy:** way that,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** say this, they put it in a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** narc vault. They're putting it in their narc
**Lindsay Abernathy:** vault. They're,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they're. They have a memory
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like
**Lindsay Abernathy:** of fricking elephant. I don't even know what, I don't even know what that means, but I've heard it like, but they can remember
**Lindsay Abernathy:** everything. I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** can't. Yeah. Who ha. I like, I can't
**Lindsay Abernathy:** remember my my passwords. I'm like, password can't be
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the same as old password. What? I don't even remember
**Lindsay Abernathy:** my, I can't, my memory is
**Lindsay Abernathy:** bad.
**Amelia Kelley:** was my
**Amelia Kelley:** dog's name in 1982.
**Amelia Kelley:** No, I'm just
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I know. What was your mascot in your elementary? I'm like, I picked the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** question now. I don't
**Lindsay Abernathy:** know, but their memory is
**Lindsay Abernathy:** so insane. It's
**Lindsay Abernathy:** so
**Lindsay Abernathy:** crazy
**Lindsay Abernathy:** sharp. And
**Lindsay Abernathy:** later it came
**Lindsay Abernathy:** back that when we were not
**Lindsay Abernathy:** in a good, healthy place, because when someone's calling you a scenic Tuesday all the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** time and all the bad words, he was saying to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** [00:40:00] me, I'm not interested. I'm not
**Lindsay Abernathy:** at the my connection was moving away from him
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and I didn't wanna have sex
**Lindsay Abernathy:** anymore. There was a time where he would say well, you're a cold
**Lindsay Abernathy:** fish, probably because you were raped.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** You know what
**Lindsay Abernathy:** the what? And I'm going, I'm not a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** cold big time. Like I was
**Lindsay Abernathy:** just like AK 47
**Lindsay Abernathy:** down with that and going, wait, am I bad in
**Lindsay Abernathy:** bed?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** am I not a good lover? Is that, oh, you're not a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** good lover
**Lindsay Abernathy:** because of this. And I thought. I'm 16. I'm not
**Lindsay Abernathy:** here to talk about body counts, but I've had, no one's ever said
**Lindsay Abernathy:** this before, no one's ever said I was bad
**Lindsay Abernathy:** in bed and now you are off.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And then I, I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** literally
**Lindsay Abernathy:** went down this rabbit hole of like almost wanting to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** phone every single person I'd
**Lindsay Abernathy:** ever had sex with and been like, am I a cold
**Lindsay Abernathy:** fish?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Am I good in
**Lindsay Abernathy:** bed? Did you be like, enjoy having
**Lindsay Abernathy:** sex
**Lindsay Abernathy:** with me? And I didn't. But I, I might now do that on the show. Maybe I'll have a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** new
**Lindsay Abernathy:** segment where I
**Amelia Kelley:** Oh,
**Amelia Kelley:** that'll be a fun one. Why? The, the [00:41:00] cold fish segment?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So I'm like, but how, how horrible. And that's what they do. And
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I say this again, I use humor as my trauma
**Lindsay Abernathy:** response, but when I look back and it, it was gutting at the time and I can look back on it now, going, wow, that is really twisted, not beyond twisted. That's evil. that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** is to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** do that to somebody. But they do,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they take inventory of
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you They love in that love bombing stage. You can't imagine
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that you've met somebody that is like so perfect for you. Every, they love the same things,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they love the same books, or they love this or they love that. Like I, you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** know, they love underwater basket weaving. Oh yeah, me too. I was the captain of my underwater basket weaving team in high school. and you're like,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** here he is on his horse and
**Amelia Kelley:** We can weave together
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yes.
**Amelia Kelley:** hearts and souls.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Exactly like yay.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And you are sitting
**Lindsay Abernathy:** there completely just taking the bait. And
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** [00:42:00] love to call these people master
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Baiters.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** They are so good at baiting you and you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** just take
**Lindsay Abernathy:** it every time and you're hooked
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and probably like it takes less and less
**Lindsay Abernathy:** bait.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** To get you back in, but at the beginning, that love
**Lindsay Abernathy:** bombing
**Lindsay Abernathy:** is, and I wish there was like almost a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** different term in
**Lindsay Abernathy:** some ways because we hear it so much that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you
**Amelia Kelley:** the word love has so many different, like angles and meanings to it. I think there's a notion that it's all flowers and, and, and I think also it doesn't justify what happens in healthy relationships when there's a cycle of repair. You know, some way to decipher and discern between. What that looks like when there's good intentions and actual change behind it versus
**Amelia Kelley:** the love bombing in the beginning.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** That's okay because that's important
**Lindsay Abernathy:** too. To know, I mean, you're no relationship is without
**Lindsay Abernathy:** its problems, no relationships, without its arguments,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you know, all that thing. But I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** love that it's the repair and if you're having [00:43:00] to always
**Lindsay Abernathy:** do the repair, if you're having to do the groveling, if
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you're like knees are skinned because you're always down there
**Lindsay Abernathy:** being like, I'm sorry, and you don't even know what you're sorry for.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I was saying, sorry, I'm Canadian, so we already say sorry too much. But I was saying sorry for things that I knew I didn't
**Lindsay Abernathy:** do. I just
**Lindsay Abernathy:** was like, I'm done. I can't anymore. I'm
**Lindsay Abernathy:** tired. I'm sorry.
**Amelia Kelley:** Mm-hmm.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Let's, can we do this?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And you know, I hear women that come on, bitch is a bad word. and, they'll say
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I, I would
**Lindsay Abernathy:** do
**Lindsay Abernathy:** sexual things with my partner that I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** never thought I, would do.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Just
**Lindsay Abernathy:** because that's in that moment they, that was like the only way that I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** could get them
**Lindsay Abernathy:** to calm down. and
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that was the only way. So you know, women
**Lindsay Abernathy:** using sex as a way to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** reconnect is, or people using sex as a way to reconnect is healthy. When you're using it as a way to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** manipulate your
**Lindsay Abernathy:** partner to stop the abuse, that's when it's gets really messed up for
**Lindsay Abernathy:** people. And I hear it a lot that they're
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like, I do [00:44:00] think
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I did things that I never thought I would
**Lindsay Abernathy:** do
**Lindsay Abernathy:** just to get the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** thing, just to get that person out of that,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you know, crazy rage
**Lindsay Abernathy:** or whatever
**Amelia Kelley:** Well, and that bring, that brings up the fact that, and then there was something You said earlier about how your ex had responded to you sharing your experience of being raped. that I wanna say something about that I think is really important and PS for anyone who's been waiting on the edge of their seat, like when are we gonna know how to find the next relationship?
**Amelia Kelley:** This is very obviously turning into a two
**Amelia Kelley:** part episode and I think, I think it makes sense though because how do we jump. Straight into what do we do next if we don't talk about what do we do now? So stay tuned. Stay tuned. Boo boos,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** See? You got it.
**Amelia Kelley:** oh, that's funny. But but, So okay, so
**Amelia Kelley:** two pieces here. I'll, the first about what he had said when you shared what you had experienced. I [00:45:00] just wanna put the bug in everyone's ear
**Amelia Kelley:** to pay attention to something. I wouldn't necessarily call this a red flag that is glaring, that says, this is someone who will become abusive. But I do think it's an important red flag if you're looking for someone who's emotionally mature and intelligent, which you can be somewhat emotionally immature and not an abuser.
**Amelia Kelley:** I'm not trying to say they're together, but I'm just saying it's not uncommon.
**Amelia Kelley:** If you are sharing a life experience that you have gone through, a pain that you have and the person you're sharing it with somehow manages to twist it, where it's about how hurt they are by what you went through and how shocked they are and how they have to do something about it, instead of them saying, that must have been really hard, are you okay?
**Amelia Kelley:** Instead of them checking in on you first, that is a
**Amelia Kelley:** red flag to look out for.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So him being like, I've gotta go do, that's the flag. They [00:46:00] are, they've gotta be the hero in every
**Lindsay Abernathy:** scenario. They're how is somebody the, the hero and the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** villain, that's what they are.
**Amelia Kelley:** Hero and villain, and it really is a sign of emotional immaturity. It really is, because that's how we would behave as a child if we hear about injustice. That's not how, I mean, case in, point, if you were to tell me that that happened to you, I wouldn't say, what town does he live in? I'm gonna go find him. I'm go I, I'd say, gosh, Lindsay, that's terrible,
**Amelia Kelley:** and thank you for being so courageous to say it.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Wow. You just like. I am in a session with
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** All the weight has
**Lindsay Abernathy:** been lifted and I'm not interested in finding this person just for what it's worth. so that's what I'm like, what? Why would we bring that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** back up? That's
**Lindsay Abernathy:** such a great point. They had to go be the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** hero
**Lindsay Abernathy:** in this moment and, but because I was, I in that space
**Lindsay Abernathy:** of, wow, no one's ever done
**Lindsay Abernathy:** this for me.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I must be so special. You are
**Lindsay Abernathy:** special by the way. You're [00:47:00] special, but you're, when you're with these people, you're a D
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you're not real special. They're, it's all fake. and they,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I wanna say this too, I'm
**Lindsay Abernathy:** sort of like digressing for a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** second because what I've told
**Lindsay Abernathy:** your listeners is that I felt really bad about
**Lindsay Abernathy:** myself and I was like in the shower and crying and sad, and I felt like a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** shitty person all the time. These people are
**Lindsay Abernathy:** very attracted to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** baddies. Strong, capable, opinionated,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** smart, you know, edgy, pushing. You know, they,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they are very
**Lindsay Abernathy:** interested in you. because you are
**Lindsay Abernathy:** such a badass,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** and at the same time, they're gonna be jealous over it and all the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** things that they want. You possess, they want, and so, you know, oh, she walks in her room and she doesn't know any strangers.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Well, they're gonna love that. They wish they were that, but
**Lindsay Abernathy:** people [00:48:00] are repelled by
**Lindsay Abernathy:** them, most likely. But you, haven't seen that yet. And they're gonna be
**Lindsay Abernathy:** upset about it. So they, they're, they wanna take the things that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** make you shine and dull them because they can't
**Lindsay Abernathy:** handle it, but they went after you and you're not, don't feel
**Lindsay Abernathy:** bad
**Lindsay Abernathy:** about being hoodwinked by these people because they
**Lindsay Abernathy:** They don't wanna play with a dead
**Lindsay Abernathy:** mouse. You gave them something that
**Lindsay Abernathy:** they wanted to play with. You gave them that fire, you gave them that feist, you gave them
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that and they loved
**Lindsay Abernathy:** it,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** but they only love it for a little
**Lindsay Abernathy:** while and just
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Exactly. And then
**Lindsay Abernathy:** just like a toddler would do, they're gonna
**Lindsay Abernathy:** take their toys away.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** They wanna share all the toys, they wanna share all the things you wanna play together. We're gonna sit and you can have my car. And I, you can, and then the second that you're a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** threat, or the second that you don't, you know, meet their standard in their mind or whatever it is like that, you'll never know.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** They don't even tell you what it is.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** They always move the goalpost. They're gonna take their toys away and they don't wanna
**Lindsay Abernathy:** play
**Lindsay Abernathy:** with you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** anymore,
**Amelia Kelley:** You know.[00:49:00]
**Lindsay Abernathy:** that's the worst.
**Amelia Kelley:** And you know the interesting thing, if you take what you said and you look at the kind of externalized version of a batty, like you walk into the room, people are drawn to you, you exude confidence. This is also very true for a lot of people who listen to this podcast who are highly sensitive, who maybe aren't the one that takes over a whole room, but our ability to.
**Amelia Kelley:** Pick up on what other people need and our ability to know how to make the room just right so that people feel comfortable, and our ability to feel what others are feeling so we can translate it. That that depth of empathy is also incredibly appealing to someone who struggles to do that in their real
**Amelia Kelley:** true self.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Very true. Very true. Because you're, You're most likely filling that void their, you know, their mother wound, or I'm just talking about if your relationship with a man or their father Mo
**Lindsay Abernathy:** like whatever, whoever your partner is, [00:50:00] and you are,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you're repairing some or you're filling a hole that they
**Lindsay Abernathy:** have and that you, end up taking care of someone.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And I would hear all the time, you're not meeting my
**Lindsay Abernathy:** needs. And I'm like, well, oh,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Wait. I also have two babies that I absolutely have to.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** meet their needs or they can't survive.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** When I would hear
**Lindsay Abernathy:** this from a grown ass man, I was taking it like it was my responsibility and what we now know, and as you get healthier and going, you know, as you leave this
**Lindsay Abernathy:** life behind and you start to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** take care of yourself and take care of your emotional wellbeing and heal the parts of you that needed to heal and heal
**Lindsay Abernathy:** those wounds, you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** realize that. You are not here to take care of somebody's needs. You're here to
**Lindsay Abernathy:** take care of yourself, take care of your side of the street. They take care of their side of the
**Lindsay Abernathy:** street, and you have a really nice neighborhood and you're doing the best things that you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** [00:51:00] can and you're gonna,
**Amelia Kelley:** like a party, like
**Amelia Kelley:** a street party.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** yes. We're like,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** we're here. We're all like sweeping our
**Lindsay Abernathy:** porches. Everybody's look like, and look, we
**Lindsay Abernathy:** look how nice this is. You know, we, you're not there to just solely
**Lindsay Abernathy:** serve somebody and you're not there. Your needs are valid too, and you, you know, this is like a collective, a collaborative thing when you are with an
**Lindsay Abernathy:** abusive person, emotionally, physically, sexually, spiritually, financially.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Otherwise,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** it is all about filling
**Lindsay Abernathy:** their cup. They have no interest in
**Lindsay Abernathy:** pouring into yours.
**Amelia Kelley:** Right. You are so correct and I loved how you said when you are basically envisioning what the next steps are, like what is it after? And that's where
**Amelia Kelley:** I'm going to call it to be continued.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Oh
**Amelia Kelley:** We're gonna have to,
**Amelia Kelley:** because I'm, I'm just really grateful that you did go the direction you went today though, because I think it would've been a, disservice.
**Amelia Kelley:** To someone who [00:52:00] maybe popped into our original chat that we were going to have, and they're like well, wait. How do I even know how to get out? Or how do I know what's going on? How do I know if this is even abuse? So I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful for knowing you. like I'm just, I've really genuinely, every time I chat
**Amelia Kelley:** with you, I just love it.
**Amelia Kelley:** So
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Oh,
**Lindsay Abernathy:** absolutely. This feeling is so mutual and yeah, I'm glad that we have, we need
**Lindsay Abernathy:** this space for somebody to know that that's what they're in and. Also, you
**Lindsay Abernathy:** know, being here, and I say this a lot, I have a show, bitch is a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Bad word, is true. Bitch is a well I I love calling some
**Lindsay Abernathy:** bitches, bitches 'cause it's empowering. But if someone's calling you bitch, it's not just bad words, it's abuse. On the other side of this, and this is kind of something I'm growing on in, in my podcast where word is bitch is a
**Lindsay Abernathy:** rad word and there is some really amazing. Opportunities and your life after this [00:53:00]
**Lindsay Abernathy:** is rad. So we're gonna get into
**Amelia Kelley:** I love it. I love it. All right, well, thank you everyone. Thank you, Lindsay. I know they can find you at your podcast. Is there anywhere else you'd like them to follow you or keep up or reach out? if they
**Amelia Kelley:** need support or help, or a new
**Amelia Kelley:** bestie?
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yes, I am your new bestie.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** I am your BFF for life. Reach out. I answer all of the dms myself so you, can find us on Instagram at bitch is a Bad word. Pod TikTok and YouTube is, bitch is a bad word. We have a Patreon community that we are growing. So it's patreon.com/bitch is a bad word. There's some baddies in there that have found new communities, new friends.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** We do a segment called Tea with Lindsay, and I spill all the tea. There's all sorts of fun stuff there. And we have a phone
**Lindsay Abernathy:** number, three three, one bitches.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And you can phone us, you can send us a text. And my favorite thing to do is I have a segment on my show called Textes from the Exes, and I read all of the unhinged text [00:54:00] messages that have been sent to listeners
**Lindsay Abernathy:** over time.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** And when
**Lindsay Abernathy:** you put them on the wall
**Lindsay Abernathy:** or in a book, TBD they are all appearing like they're coming from the same
**Lindsay Abernathy:** person.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** So Same playbook.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** going back to that. So
**Lindsay Abernathy:** send me your texts from your exes and I'll read them on my show, but reach out. Please do. I love connecting. I'm growing a bestie gang. We have a really amazing community where we are helping if you're, you know, if you need help, we have resources. We have a partnership now with the hotline, and we're here
**Lindsay Abernathy:** to just grow a community where you're, you know, you can leave from being a survivor to thriving in your, in your new life.
**Amelia Kelley:** Love it. Fabulous. Well, I will definitely make sure in the beginning to pop in the info about the hotline and where you guys can make those calls if you need. But Lindsay, thank you again. I'm like, just so happy we got to get
**Amelia Kelley:** together
**Lindsay Abernathy:** Yes.
**Lindsay Abernathy:** thank you so much for having me on your show. I will [00:55:00] very much be looking forward to part two. Bye besties.
**Amelia Kelley:** Awesome. Be well everyone.